Oct

13

65 Comments

  1. calm down  

    I haven't seen the letters, but if they are written they way the administration suggested they would be, they are not exactly subpoenas or anything, just a request to meet privately with the administration for further information which COULD lead to Dean's Discipline, which is not a punitive process anyway. So what's with the strategizing? If the university wants to sit you down and tell you what you did was wrong, maybe it's worth listening to them instead of getting up in arms.

  2. well  

    as long as they're expelled, I'll be satisfied.

    • not  

      they have to be expelled...WITH A VENGEANCE!

      • you two  

        are real nice. Brown and Searles didn't even get expelled for scrawling swastikas all over someone else's dorm, and you want to expel people for a disruptive protest? What did they do to you? Please don't just intone meaninglessly that "they damaged the reputation of this university".

        • they  

          don't know how to behave in an academic setting. they replaced discourse with force. they need to be met now with the force of law.

          and, btw, bringing up hypocrisy re: brown and searles is a red herring since no one here ever advocated any position w/regard to them.

          • gilchrist  

            uses force all the time... and used more of it at the event than protesters. this was already not a pure academic discourse.

            re brown and searles, well, calling for their expulsion is an easy defense to the hypocrisy charge - is anyone going to make it? you don't. but anyway i wasn't calling the commenters hypocrites, only saying the administration would be if it followed their advice

            using "the force of law" to squelch dissent has an ugly history. and yes, we're talking about dissent here, and you can't say this about what the protesters did. look at the power relationship between hecklers and gilchrist, and then the one between the students and the university. calling for university sanctions on protesters is a vastly more chilling thing than anyone did to gilchrist, and doing it in the name of freedom of speech is gross

          • wow  

            your logic is riddled with fallacies. where to begin? first, it's entirely unnecessary to take a position on brown and searles to have one on the protesters. that's as true for me as it is for the university; the incidents are of a dissimilar nature. one involves the question of offensive and invasive expression, the other of expression that stifles other speech. the latter (the protest incident) is much more clear cut.

            second, that gilchrist uses force (and please prove that he has) in the desert of new mexico has no bearing on his behavior in the auditorium. the fact that one of the protesters was kicked in the head by a minuteman in reaction to the protest does not validate the initialization of the protest to begin with. and the fact that there is a "power disparity" between gilchrist and the protesters (how ridiculous; both are vigilantes operating against the sanction of law; neither should be given any legitimation by anyone) does not make the violent expression of dissent legitimate any more than burning down the white house is legitimate because one may hate president bush. you confuse suppression of dissent with punishment of a certain odious means to that dissent which society does well to discourage.

          • hehe  

            "riddled with fallacies." this reminds me of how people write CC papers.

          • wow indeed  

            the protesters did nothing more than speak, too. brown and searles' speech was an assault on the people who lived in the suite where they did it for being gay, jewish, or black. the protesters speech interfered with that of a bigot. and you think the latter is a more clear cut case of expulsion?

            see this stuff is totally relevant because it shows where people are really coming from. you're not concerned about actually protecting the freedom of speech of people who's speech is threatened in the real world - opponents of the government, the university, etc. you're not concerned about anything that happens of campus - why, you ask, should gilchrist's actions elsewhere matter here? you aren't defending freedom of speech in the tradition of people who have fought for the First Amendment, who are concerned about defending the right to speak truth to power. you're using it as rhetorically pretty way of putting your desire to preserve the purity of the academic setting as a place free from all unpleasant conflict or disruption, ie free of any connection to the real world. if anyone brings it home to Columbia, you want to bring the full "force of the law" down on them. and you probably think of yourself as an engaged, tolerant liberal.

            maybe i'm not describing your actual psychology. but i'm describing the pattern of your arguments.

          • vanderbilt

            Have you ever been to the border? It is a disgrace at what these illegal immigrants are doing to this country. They come across the border meet at particular areas and wait for there next ride to where ever they are going. I have seen these waiting spots. It looks like the New York City Dumps. Garbage all over the place, syringes, prescribed drugs, illegal drugs, feces, signs of rape and did mention garbage all over the place. I am not talking about a small 10x10 dorm room, I am telling you areas the size of a football field just strewn all over with garbage. Where are the environmentalists from Columbia University protesting this? I will tell you where, they are nowhere to be found.

            What the Minutemen are doing is what your government is not doing,” Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 of the Constitution of the United States of America - To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;” I think over four thousand people coming across the southern border a day, in my eyes, that is a daily invasion in my country not to mention over 12 million people in my country here illegally. The most basic and fundamental function of any government is to protect its people. By the way, what would tell the over 3,100 families that have had loved ones murdered, let me say it again MUDERED by people that were in this country illegally?

          • well  

            I'd be very distressed if anyone "mudered" my loved ones.

          • lame  

            correcting spelling and grammar errors, rather than responding to opinions that are different from your own is a sign of cowardice and stupidity.

          • Ron Lewenberg

            What an orwellian viewpoint.

            Your free speech does not include preventing my free speech.

            Interupting an event is neither dissent nor free speech. It is an attempt to SUPPRESS speech which you dont like.
            This is a case of thuggery dressed up in victimhood.

            If you think that what the commies and the multi-cultural grievence activists crowd did was free speech, I'm sure that you would dilike me storming your event and disrupting it.

          • who the fuck  

            is ron lewenberg?

        • vanderbilt

          Damn right they should be expelled for storming the stage and I will go one more step they should be arrested by the law not some lame slap on the hand by some liberal dean of students at Columbia. They could have caused a major riot. A swastika is used throughout the world in other cultures and religions; it is not just the Nazi's that used that symbol. The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. (That even predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh!) Putting a swastika on a wall is not violent like storming a stage where there are people that are there as guest to speak. What would you do if you saw a bunch of hooligans running towards you? Do not bother to answer that question, either you would sit there like a bump on a log or put yourself in a defensive position.
          The University's reputation has been damaged for some time now that is why I choose not to attend Columbia. It is a disgrace that my tax dollars go to that LIBERAL indoctrination school.

          • sorry  

            there is no 'dean of students' at columbia. just a dean of student affairs. typical bureacracy.

            ps you swastika arguement holds no water. vandalism is a crime. the use of slurs and epithets in vandalism constitutes a hate crime by law. i think we can safely contextualize the swastika as a hate symbol and not a misunderstood attempt at sprading peace by the vandals.

          • um?

            If this is satire, your'e good. very good. otherwise, i fear for the safety and well-being of this country.

          • well,  

            if you don't go here, then why are you lurking around the blog of a campus publication? is nashville too boring for you?

          • vanderbilt

            It is called freedom of speech.
            Pay attention in class and maybe you will understand what that means?

          • please...  

            i asked a valid question about why you troll around this blog. beyond invoking your constitutional right to free speech (that no one was questioning), do you have any real justification for spending so much time on a blog that has no affiliation with vanderbilt? you don't have to answer the question, but spare me the condescending talking point from high school civics.

          • vanderbilt

            It is a valid question that a person who thinks that they are above all who do not agree with what blather they spew out of there mouth with no concept of what or who I am. It is not Vanderbilt, the university, Van Derbilt is my name. I do not troll around this blog; I was pointed to this blog by a friend, brainiac.

          • my apologies  

            sorry i couldn't interpret your ID. that doesn't mean you don't have to be an asshole.

          • Criminologist  

            Could Have Inciting A Major Riot is in fact a felony. Lock them up!

          • John  

            8,16:

            Or you would kick them in the face and try to instigate a riot.

            Incidentally, speaking of symbolism, 'nigger' used to denote—without offensive overtones—a black person; now it's just offensive. You might want to consider how people percieve the swastika these days before you go showing your callow nature.

            And Americans have murdered quite a few of their fellow citizens without imported help.

            13:

            It can't be repeated enough: the banner unfurled upon our stage did not deny the Holocaust. It denied the logic that led to the Holocaust. Look up 'Spin Control' on this same blog.

            29:

            Good call. Wonder what PrezBo thinks?

            All:

            Fascism does not have anything to do with leftism. Anarchism has nothing to do with Fascism or Communism. What's a slur? Passing over a fact to remove it from consideration. Consider this: anyone who calls anyone else an Anarcho-Fascist has no idea what he is saying.

            Regardless of what you all think about the protesters' legal situation right now, Gilchrist is the one who needs to be watching his back. Point of support: he had to withdraw from a discussion on Democracy Now! after being warned by his legal counsel to speak no further.

          • Legal advice

            That's because Gilchrist isn't going to allow himself to be slandered by Karina Garcia who called him a murderer on TV. Someone is going to face a rude awakening when they discover there are consequences for such baseless accusations made in public.

  3. not  

    going to respond to the off-campus troll who's defending a hate crime

  4. who says  

    Swastikas are not so bad!
    What's bad are banners that deny the holocaust in arabic.

    expell them, jail them, and then sentence them to probation on mars!

  5. the intelligence  

    on this blog is too much for me

  6. david

    I am a recent graduate and I support the protesters wholeheartedly. They deserve absolutely no reprisal for jumping up on a stage and unfurling a banner. They didn't cancel the event, nor did they start a "riot."

  7. Look  

    Columbia rules. This shit is awesome.

  8. rjt  

    I love how given a relatively small amount of information, people assume complete idiocy before sarcasm.

  9. socialists  

    fundamentalist conservatives, and all other extremists can GO TO HELL.

  10. hm...  

    proper punishment should be some mandatory DIVERSITY TRAINING. heads will explode from the stupidity. it will be sufficiently evil.

  11. The Constitution  

    Here is the First Amendment:

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. "

    To be technical, the First Amendment prevents the government from prohibiting the general populace from speaking. It is to prevent the government from abusing its powers. It doesn't actually say anything about individuals being required to recognize the speech of other individuals, either explicity or implicitly.

  12. Someone  

    I really don't think that Columbia should expel anyone over an issue that is not very clear-cut. Honestly there are rational arguments for both sides of the debate. Expelling anyone for something that is this controversial will just lead to more controversy, and won't solve anything.

  13. your pal, Chas Carey  

    Hey Ron!

    Nice website!

    Thanks for calling my grandmother a "socialist and[/or] communist from the US" on your website for her work towards founding the UN! FYI, she was one of the first female lawyers in this country, and a staunch Republican her whole life, as am I.

    I dunno, though. If you're the kind of kid I'm gonna meet if I join the young Republicans after graduation, I think I'll just drink a bottle of scotch and throw myself down a flight of stairs, as that's what it'll be like trying to make conversation with you. Not that the young Dems'd be any better - in fact, probably worse, they don't even have their talking points in order - but hey! You're the one making an ass out of yourself here.

    Do you not have a real job, or do you just love meddling in your alma mater's affairs?

    Why don't you try solving some of the problems that've led to this stupid situation instead of egging on younger kids with buzzwords and indignant letters to humor newspapers?

    Hugs and kisses,
    Chas Carey, filthy papist, sadly not a guy of "British heritage and Protestant values" and therefore not American in your mind - but a registered Republican. Oh shit, son, how'd *he* get past the literacy test?

    • best post  

      in quite some time. hhahaha:

      "Oh shit, son, how'd *he* get past the literacy test?"

      :)

    • Anonymous

      Chris,

      "Thanks for calling my grandmother a "socialist and[/or] communist from the US" on your website for her work towards founding the UN! FYI, she was one of the first female lawyers in this country, and a staunch Republican her whole life, as am I."
      Many Republicans are liberals, and many liberals are the tools of the Trans-national socialists. The UN is not about peace it is about governance and has always been dominated by the worst elements.

      "I dunno, though. If you're the kind of kid I'm gonna meet if I join the young Republicans after graduation, I think I'll just drink a bottle of scotch and throw myself down a flight of stairs"
      Actually, I am a minority. There are a variety of viewpoints.

      "Do you not have a real job, or do you just love meddling in your alma mater's affairs?"
      Yes, I havea job. I also have a hobby, trying to protect the US from the cancer of liberalism.
      In so far as Columbia students will likely be members of the elite, we cannot afford to cede the institutions. In so far as Columbia has been used as a stage and tool for political change, it would be foolsih to walk away completely.
      In so far as Columbia seeks my money, should I not care what is done with it?

      "Why don't you try solving some of the problems that've led to this stupid situation instead of egging on younger kids with buzzwords and indignant letters to humor newspapers?"
      The pervading leftist group think that led to the violent occupation of the state is what I am trying to deal with.

      "Chas Carey, filthy papist, sadly not a guy of "British heritage and Protestant values" and therefore not American in your mind - but a registered Republican. Oh shit, son, how'd *he* get past the literacy test?"

      Were you to have actually read my page, you would know that I am Jewish, not a WASP. I am actually the son of immigrants. I simply did my DUTY and assimilated.
      America has a culture and founding ideals. If immigrants don't assimilate or believe in these ideals, then they are betraying the people who let them in. The goal of immigration should not be to remake America.

      I am standing up for my interests as an American.

  14. chas

    a couple of points I would like to make, Ron is neither of "British heritage and Protestant values" so that might have thrown a bit of a wrench in your arguement, and Chris Kulawik is a "papist" like you. I wonder how that fits into the very narrowly defined definition (according to your post) of who the CR's are.

    • chas's point  

      is that ron is obviously of neither british heritage nor protestant values. neither is chris. and yet they stand for those interests (or more aptly, that aesthetic) and not their own

      • umm..  

        since when is it mandated that people should base their identities on their race and upbringing? i thought the whole purpose of multiculturalism and the OMA was so people would be free to form and explore their identities however they wanted to

      • that guy Chas Carey  

        Nah, not really my point. It was just that not everyone has to fully succumb to the views of the founders 100% to be a member of this country. That's one of the nicer things about it, I thought. I don't buy into Washington's form of religious worship, although I think his dedication to self-improvement was very admirable. Does that mean I'm not welcome here? I hope not, I have to get my passport renewed soon.

        I know a lot of the CRs, and they're fine kids by and large, just as the Dems are. I'm in name a member of the CR organization, I just don't have the time to go.

        Damn, I hate clarifying jokes.

  15. I love Lerner  

    It seems like all the administration is doing is sending out scary letters, and not actually concerned with improving the Columbia environment. It's obvious that many people are upset about the controversy, and the admin doesn't really seem concerned with anything aside from its own reputation. Of course Columbia's reputation is important, but the admin also has a responsability to student sentiment. At least w/the hate crimes the admin seemed (at least a *tiny* bit) concerned with student feelings. Sending threatening emails to a few students does nothing to solve the root conflict.

    Obviously many students in minority groups (whether by minority we mean a racial minority or a political minority) feel threatened at Columbia. Whether the previous statement refers to a Republican who feels he can't freely express his political views or to a Latino who feels unsafe/threatened on campus because a racist speaker is coming, this is clearly a problem with deep roots. Expelling one or two students isn't the solution. The administration really needs to talk to students from all sides of the spectrum and try to create a better campus atmosphere.

    In the hate crimes incident (although I feel that they deserved more punishment) the administration at least saw that the problem went beyond one particular incident. The admin viewed the incident not merely as a case of "punish and forget" but as a sign that the University needed to make some changes, to speak to students and really find out how students felt, to improve the campus atmosphere to make everyone feel comfortable here.

    • vanderbilt

      You are right, all the administration is doing is sending out scary letters to make it look like they are doing something. If this was not in the news they would not even think about sending out scary letters.
      Although I do not understand how you equated, "Latino who feels unsafe/threatened on campus because a racist speaker is coming" the Minuteman Project is not a racist’s organization that a Latino should feel threatened.
      I believe that the students that rushed the stage should be expelled and then some. There is a mindset in many of the campuses around the country where there is a very high Liberal point of view that is the standard. That is what has to be ousted from the higher learning establishments around the country.
      If one watched the videos of the "protest of the Minutemen Project" at Columbia you will noticed that the security did nothing to subdue the onslaught of people who suppressed the freedom of some else's point of view.

  16. Lou Paloma

    All of you defending the protestors by comparing them to searles and brown are forgetting the fact that the protestors were calling Marvin Stewart, the black minute man speaker, "nigger" during thier little jihad against free speech last wednesday. But I guess you get to use racist speech when you're a self rightous indignant left winger.

    • oh, and also

      "All of you defending the protestors by comparing them to searles and brown are forgetting the fact that the protestors were calling Marvin Stewart, the black minute man speaker, "nigger" during thier little jihad against free speech last wednesday. But I guess you get to use racist speech when you're a self rightous indignant left winger."

      Do you notice how not even the media which has been all over the protestors is picking this one up. that's because it's clearly total bullshit. there are no witnesses to it at all except for the minutemen.

      It's sort of like how you crazy minutemen types were claiming the banner read in Arabic "The Holocaust Did Not Happen."

      • OMGSTFU  

        Stop repeating facts that people already know. These are not arguments. Everyone knows the sign didn't say that. STFU.

        Stop using the n-word on a public forum. STFU.

        Do not name call. Or if you are going to use something more clever then, "dipshits".STFU.

        Calling something "the dumbest comparison I have ever seen" is not an adequate rebutal.STFU.

        Educate yourself and post again.
        You embarass liberals everywhere by being UNINFORMED and posting on a public forum.

  17. That's the dumbest

    ---Whether the previous statement refers to a Republican who feels he can't freely express his political views or to a Latino who feels unsafe/threatened on campus because a racist speaker is coming, this is clearly a problem with deep roots.---

    that's the dumbest comparison I have ever seen. trying to compare racism to rebublicans feeling marginalized because there are too many liberals at columbia.

    You run the fucking country dipshits, stop whining. I love the idea that there are anti-republican hate crimes that have some sort of meaning next to actual racism, actual attacks on latinos and other people of color because they are people of color.

    Now, wait for the moronic ron lewenberg response in 5,4,3,2,1...

    ---Whether the previous statement refers to a Republican who feels he can't freely express his political views or to a Latino who feels unsafe/threatened on campus because a racist speaker is coming, this is clearly a problem with deep roots.---

    • Anonymous

      "
      You run the fucking country dipshits, stop whining. I love the idea that there are anti-republican hate crimes that have some sort of meaning next to actual racism, actual attacks on latinos and other people of color because they are people of color."

      OK, I'll respond.

      I don't buy your Marxist belief that truth is defined by power and that non-whites are some wonderful proletariate.

      This university openly and proudly discriminates against whites.
      This university openly hires based on politics, as based in the Diversity initiative.

      And I happen to care about non-white Americans. PArt of that means that I don't want historically marginalized communities to be remarginalized by immigration.
      You may believe in some global brown proletaraite,but I believe in America.

      Since you are one who political benfits from the disposetion of these people and obviously go by the Lenninist celebration of worsening conditions as a tool of revolutionary, you are the racist.

      • Yid #2  

        Ronny baby, not to kvetch, but if you keep up with this mishegos, you'll have to go to schluf without your kugel.

        Look: this land was first founded on the principle of killing red people and enslaving black people. So before you harangue us a bit more with your manifest destiny schtick, let me say this:

        the single most popular form of american music of all time, hands down, is the minstrelsy. According to cultural historians at this very university (and if there's one thing we CAN do, it's write our history books) the 'artform' had a staying power that took it from 1840 to 1940.

        Some of the songs are still popular--we did Little Brown Jug in its instrumental version in my elementary school jazz-band. It's about how those blacks, they like to drink on the job.

        Still wanna be someone else's idea of an american? go put on tfillin before your right hand forgets its skill, you silly little bigot.

  18. now,  

    who is going to be the petty and unclever person to point out the spelling and grammar errors in the last couple of posts?

  19. witness  

    i was there and they were yelling this out... in fact it came from the left row of seats.

  20. Lou Paloma

    "Do you notice how not even the media which has been all over the protestors is picking this one up. that's because it's clearly total bullshit. there are no witnesses to it at all except for the minutemen."

    Actually Fox news interviewed Marvin Stewart and Chris Kulawik who both claimed that racial slurs were being used by the protestors.

    Gee I wonder whose word is more reliable Marvin Stewarts or Monique Dols and her leftofacist cronies.

    This wouldn't be the first time so called tolerant progressive liberals have resorted to using racial slurs toward someone who doesn't fit into their preconcieved notion that all minorities must be liberals.

    Why anyone would take these protestors who act like 5 year olds and scream whenever someone else offers a view contrary to theirs that they cannot counter with reasoned, logical debate is beyond me. I know that all of you supporting the protestors are also incapable of doing so. You're all screaming about how racist and violent the minutemen are. Well where's the fucking proof. Instead of repeating tired leftist catchphrases why don't you people offer some concrete eveidence as to these accusations directed toward the minutemen.

    Until you can offer any such proof you will remain to appear as a bunch of loud mouthed, know it all dumbasses who can't back up a thing they say, to normal reasoanable people. Just like the protestors.

  21. I love lerner  

    My point was not that the 2 groups (Republicans, minorities) are equivalent. It was that there are people on both sides of the issue who feel marginalized, and that by focusing on targeting several students for individual punishment, the administration is not failing to address the larger issues. Regardless of whether underlying feelings of antagonism on either side are justified, the feelings are there, and the antagonism is not likely to be resolved by a few punishments.

  22. FYI  

    the (clearly quite intelligent) guy who was yelling racial slurs freely admitted it to producers at fox. so stop whining.

  23. FYI?  

    Uh... no, no protester admitted yellign racial slurs, cause it just didnt happen. Marvin Stewart is clearly a total loon, as his speech and his fantasies about Arabic demonstrate.

  24. whoops  

    apparently i can't type today. "that doesn't mean you have to be an asshole." having to type it twice probably makes me look idiotic, but i can deal with it.

  25. heh  

    I like the fact that people don't think having swatstikas on the wall is threatening, I wonder whether that person thinks what the protestors did is worse than a burning cross in their yard ("Crosses are ancient symbols of religion, there is no hate message", as he would say).

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