Nov

19

SJP is on the Low Steps

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If you’ve walked past the Steps today, you’ve probably noticed the shouting line of sign-laden students.  They’re from the Students for Justice in Palestine, and they’re protesting Israel’s military action in the latest Gaza Strip flare-up.

The President of LionPAC, Ron Shapiro, sent the following to the pro-Israel group (italics his):

As some of you may have noticed, Students for Justice in Palestine is on Low Steps right now protesting against the current IDF Operation in Gaza. We are working closely with the Hillel staff to reserve space at the Sundial as soon as possible so that we can show our support for Israel. Until we get approval, please do not organize yourselves on College Walk in response to SJP.

 

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57 Comments

    • The irony  

      is that these protesters were chanting that Israel is a terrorist state (at least they acknoledge Israel's existence as a state, unlike Hamas) even though it is Hamas that is internationally recognized as a terrorist organization.

      • Anon  

        Indiscriminately bombing children and pregnant women is a response to Hamas? Really? And Hamas (and I'm assuming by proxy you're trying to suggest all Palestinians) refuses to recognize Israel? How is this a.) true and b.) even an issue? Whether or not the legitimacy of the Israeli state is recognized by Hamas has zero effect on Israelis, because they have their own government controlling their lives. Palestinians, most especially Gazans, are under a constant military occupation by the Israeli military that has total control over their lives. If Israel refuses to recognize the democratically elected governments of the Palestinians, than it needs to stop identifying singularly as a "Jewish state" and instead a state that represents all people of the region, Jewish or otherwise. It cannot at once create a tiered class system based on Jewish vs. non-Jewish identity, treat Gaza as an open-air prison while militarily occupying and restricting all basic food and resource intake, respond to homemade "rockets" that themselves were responses to government asassignations with outlandish aerial strikes, and then turn around an pretend to be a peace-loving nation that just wants to be a good neighbor. The Israeli state has always and will always oppress the Palestinians for as long as they refuse to integrate their society on the sole-basis of racist, Jewish supremacy. In the meantime, the state seems perfectly content to spend years using classic tactics of colonialism against the Palestinians in Gaza in order to provoke attack and then decry terrorism so as to justify their exaggerated "response." You cannot militarily occupy a region and claim you're the responders.

        • You know what happens when you assume  

          You make an ass out of 'u' and 'me.' I was careful to say "Hamas" and not Palestinians because Hamas is terrorist group, whereas most Palestinians just want peace. You are the one that has very clearly demonstrated a Palestinian vs. Jewish rift here, as you reference Israel or an Israeli state twice, and a Jewish state the rest of the time---this is not a conflict between religion, and that is the first thing you have to recognize. There are many flaws with your logic, which begins to illustrate why SJP is out of control and out of touch.

          I should start with the fact that you think that Hamas is elected democratically in the same way that Obama was elected democratically--if you don't think that Hamas' election over Fatah was rigged (just like Ahmadinejad's most recent 'democratic' election was rigged), then you're sorely mistaken. In fact, while Israel obviously acknoledges Hamas as existing (and the root of this conflict) I wouldn't doubt Israel if it didn't--Hamas is a terrorist organization that has openly and proudly admitted the use of civilians as human shields.

          Now, to say that Israel "indiscriminately" attacks civilians is ironic--not only has Israel dropped leaflets to encourage civilians to leave 'hot-zones,' but has also phoned targets ahead of time to give civilians a chance to flee, but it is Hamas who is shooting rockets indiscriminately into Israel, trying to kill as many civilians as possible. Of course, I recognize the death toll of Palestinian civilians, and I agree it is horrible---no innocent people deserve to die. However, I would encourage you not to point your finger at Israel for responding, but at Hamas for setting up rockets sites and for booby-trapping civilian domiciles to incur as much loss of innocent life as possible. Why do the Hamas fighters not mobilize away from innocents? Why do they go out of their way to attack Israel near schools and hospitals?

          And to answer how the existence of Israel is an issue--this is the root cause of the entire conflict--that inherent in the Hamas and PLO doctrine is the clause that does not recognize Israeli's right to life, which is why the fighting over the land can be jusitified in Hamas' eyes.

        • Student

          "Indiscriminately bombing children and pregnant women is a response to Hamas?"

          To be fair, Hamas sets up rocket launchers on top of schools and other civilian structures. By doing this, they are implicating their own civilians. What is Israel supposed to do? Allow a terrorist group to perpetually launch rockets into Tel Aviv?

  1. sex and the city superfan  

    waaaah why'd you get my hopes up

  2. Anonymous  

    inb4 shitstorm

  3. Anonymous  

    I thought this was Sarah Jessica Parker....

    My moment of shame for the day.

  4. Anonymous

    Fuck these kids they're so ignorant. Sjp sucks

  5. senior  

    Sorry but what is the relevance of ron shapiro's message to this post? It's not a statement on behalf of the club, but directions to the members of the club.
    That should have been paraphrased into the post if anything at all.

  6. Alum

    Gooooooo SJP! Keep up the good work!

  7. Julie  

    SJP have proven to be very ignorant. They are protesting "Israeli crimes" right now. Israeli citizens have been under rocket attack from Hamas, of course they are going to respond. Israel has the right to defend itself.

    • Anonymous  

      maybe but not like this...

      • Anonymous  

        Not like what? Do explain

        • Anonymous  

          Yes, Israel has been attacked with rockets from Hamas. 3 people have died. Israel also has one of the worlds leading militaries, not to mention they're backed by the US, and over 100 Palestinians have died. I don't think the Israelis can really say they're scared and have a valid point. Yes, many have refused to acknowledge Israels existence as a state, and many have said they want to destroy it, but Israel is only exacerbating the issue by practicing apartheid politics. The history is convoluted and it's impossible to blame one side or the other, they've both mesed up. But citizens of Palestine should not be killed for the actions of a terrorist group. I am not pro-Hamas, but I am pro Palestinian. Perhaps Hamas would stop bombing Israel (with very minor bombs that are horribly inaccurate) if the Israelis stopped oppressing their people.

          • So..

            Israeli citizens don't have a right to be scared because America has their back? Is America going to prevent Hamas from shooting rockets at innocent civilians? Can you imagine if a Mexican drug cartel fired ONE rocket into Texas, or California? How long would it take for the U.S. Marines to be in Mexico City?

    • Anonymouse  

      if they can have mock Israeli checkpoints can the supporters of Israel have mock terrorist attacks on these students? Maybe light some fire works and shoot them at these people? Seems Legit.

  8. Anonymous

    we are all to blame. let's sit down and have a conversation.

    Israel says yes, abandon the "3 No's"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution

  9. Anonymous

    we are all to blame. let's sit down and have a conversation.

    abandon the "3 No's"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution

  10. Anonymous

    96 dead Palestinians to 3 dead Israelis. "Responding" in "self-defense," right?

    • You mess with the bull  

      you get the horns. Unfortunately, a significant portion of dead Palestinians were civilians. These civilians, though, were placed in harm's way by Hamas, who has publicly admitted to using human shields as a strategy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y), as well as setting up rocket and missle launching sites near hospitals and schools. If Hamas could either A. not put militants near civilian areas or B. stop shooting rockets at civilian buildings in general, there would be less Palestinian death.

    • Anon  

      If Canada was firing missles into the U.S. damn hell there would be 34,982,000 dead Canadians(The population of Canada) for 3 dead Americans.

      Or how about a more "real example"? If a terrorist group were to shoot 4 plane sized missiles at the US that just happened to hit 2 tall buildings and a 5 sided polygon would the US sit by and not go attack those who attacked it wiping out many more than were killed in this terrorist attack?

      The fact of the matter is terrorist and those who support them need to be killed. Hamas is a terrorist group who commits more numerous terrorist attacks than Al Qaeda. Both groups deserve to be treated in a decisive and serious manner.

      Israel shows serious constraint in not wiping out the entire area and ending this stupid conflict.

  11. Heisenberg  

    @Anonymous: Is your point that the Israelis are lucky that they have a state-of-the-art missile defense system plus the Palestinian rockets are so inaccurate? Over 1,540 rockets have been fired from Gaza into Israel since January 2012 and Israel finally decided about a week ago to respond. Also of the 96 dead, 36 are confirmed militants as of now. So why don't you read past the headline of a newspaper before taking a side on a debate with two equally valid positions.

  12. senior  

    responding to a sole rocket with the excessive violence and aggression that israel put on display, (remember the disparate death tolls: 100+ to 3) isn't defense, it's egregious.

    • CC '14

      Um... which of the hundreds of rockets is the one that you are choosing to recognize? Let's pretend for a moment that we both like to base our arguments in something vaguely related to fact...

  13. To Israelis  

    Right Israel has to defend itself, despite the fact that Israel has
    1. blockaded Gaza
    2. Allows no one to send relief ( food, money, basic humanitarian aid) to Gaza
    3. Refuses to allow Gaza to have a functional administrative system, highways, roads, so on
    4. Hasn't returned taxes owed to Palestinian authority
    5. In NYC, prominent Israeli man's son said, " we need to flatten whole neighborhoods to the ground"
    6. Enforced a state pf desperate poverty on Gaza, so the kids there have no hope but to become terrorists
    7. Continues to build settlements in the West Bank, even though it is supposed to be Palestinian territory.
    So what is Israel defending itself from? A few hundred poor men with rocks? Are you not ashamed of yourselves? Do you have any morality? Any ounce of humanity within you?
    There is nothing I can do now, no way I could convince the US pf the wrongness of the Pro-Israel lobby. But may God have mercy on the souls of Israelites when they face him on the day of judgement.
    This will probably go down in history as the second holocaust.

    • AnonYmuse  

      Imagine your living in your dorm room and you find out that every one living in the rooms around you want to kill you. Would you help each of those other dorm rooms get stronger, make more money and get support from the other dorms who want you dead or would you try and reduce the power of all the dorms around you so that you can defend yourself against their combined might? Keep in mind its not just the Palestinians the Israelis are fighting they are fighting all those around them if each country becomes even a fraction of Israel's power they will team up and destroy a people. This team up has happened before (6 Day war ring a bell?) and will happen again unless Israel keeps those around them significantly weaker than itself. Its a simple game of survival of the fittest.

      • Isolationist.  

        It's not really survival of the fittest if the "fittest" are being subsidized by American tax dollars. Fuck that. Our backing of Israel has cost billions of dollars and thousands of American lives. What would happen if we plucked the state of Israel off the American teat? I doubt Bibi and co. would find the chutzpah to bulldoze or bomb anything bigger than a Palestinian anthill.

  14. This is simply...  

    Israel's final solution to their Palestinian problem. Why is that so difficult for people to understand?

  15. Peace&Love  

    It is disappointing to see that there are people that go to this school that actively defend the killing of innocent civilians. The killing of both innocent Palestinians and Israelis is disgusting, and it is even more disgusting to see the world so silent about it. The killing must end.

    Our responsibility as educated people is not to increase the hatred between each other. It is not right to offend other people's religion or race. It is unfair that Palestinians have to live their lives like this.

    Israeli crimes (BY THE GOVERNMENT) must be stopped. The Israeli govt must be held accountable for their crimes, and Hamas likewise.

    Let us all stand together and stop the killing of innocent civilians, instead of fueling the hatred.

    So Please, Please, before replying to anyone and insulting people because of their different views, think twice, we are all human, we are all equal and all free. We can be the change we want in the world.

    Peace and love, not war.

    Free Palestine.
    Free Israel.

    Let citizens of both countries leave peaceful lives.

    • Unfortunately...

      Wish it were that simple. However, if Palestine put down their weapons, there would be peace. If Israel did the same, it would cease to exist. There lies the problem.

      • Student

        ^ This is right on the money! Any refutation of this point is simply thinly veiled anti-semitism. And trust me, Jews are quite good at recognize anti-antisemitism - they've had a lot of practice dealing with it.

  16. Anonymous  

    Fuck SJP. You're all ignorant. Read the fucking news and realize how stupid you look. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnT_O2qRUMI

  17. Jacks  

    No Hamas means no guns for the Sons. No guns for the Sons means Charming gets taken over by those Nazi assholes. Simple math, Hamas is indirectly keeping Jews safe in America. Fucking conundrum.

  18. just putting it out there...  

    another example of religion fucking things up irreconcilably and making everyone hate each other for a godforsaken (pun intended) strip of desert

  19. Anonymous

    This is the current situation in Gaza: http://twitpic.com/be0qxn
    Don't fall prey to the overwhelming media and political support for the Israeli invasion and slaughter. Free Gaza! In the words of Noam Chomsky: " no mechanized armor, no command in control, no army… and calls it a war. It is not a war, it is murder."

  20. Anonymous

    Also read this article by Glenn Greenwald: we should ALL care about Gaza
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/17/israel-gaza-us-policy

  21. Anon

    Read this article on why Americans cannot be indifferent to what is happening in Palestine - FREE GAZA
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/17/israel-gaza-us-policy

  22. To people who dont read the news  

    Why don't you educate yourself.
    1 Israel has a legal blockade according to international law to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons.
    2 Israel sent 50,000 trucks of humanitarian aid between april 2011 and june 2012.
    3 is untrue, 4 is unclear what you are referring to, 5 is the classic lazy argument to take one radical person's opinion and pretend like its representative of anyone elses' opinion 6 gaza is just as poor as the rest of the arab world in sectors that dont have oil
    7 I agree with but the West Bank is unrelated to the Gaza issue at hand.

    Since none of these 7 points have anything to do with what Israel is defending itself from, I will inform you that it is defending itself from the about a hundred missiles and rockets shot into Israel from Gaza daily. And lastly, using the Holocaust to make a shock point (especially in regard to an issue about Jews) is both offensive but lazy.

  23. Anonymous  

    Haha maybe the result we recently ended up with, the death of Bin Ladin, was just. But the fact that we went into Iraq, against UN security council advice, against CIA evidence, because Bush thought thats where the threat was? The amount of US soldiers and Iraqi civillians whose lives were lost when we were in the wrong damn country? No...I don't think that part was just.

  24. anon  

    zionist? or lionist?

  25. Stand up!

    This is not a matter or Jews vs Arabs, whether Christians or Muslims, this is not a matter of ideology that you have to support -being Jewish does not oblige you to endorse the Israeli government's policies, or being Arab does not entail that you must support Arab causes. Yet you should use your critical mind and apply your humanity to evaluate the critical situation in Gaza today: alarming numbers of people are being killed by Israeli bombs (Israel has one of the most powerful armies today). There is no justification for such a high death toll in Gaza today. Diversify your media sources and think independently, apply your internal morality and rationality to assess the situation in Gaza.

  26. Something for everyone to keep in mind

    It seems the commenters here and the public in general don't recognize that the escalation in Hamas rocket fire against Israel this time around was in response to an Israeli air strike that assassinated a top-level Hamas official along with several citizens. Hamas is a terrorist organization, but to the Palestinian people Hamas also has a political wing that represents them. The assassination in this case would be the equivalent of the assassination of America's Secretary of Defense. Is the correct response to that firing more rockets and escalating war? No. But the correct response to that escalation is also not air strikes that are guaranteed to kill dozens of women and children.
    Perhaps we should criticize the people of Gaza for electing Hamas and supporting them over a coalition government between Hamas and Fatah, but when they are living in extreme poverty induced by an ongoing Israeli blockade, checkpoints that restrict motion, and regulations that severely tamper any sort of private sector, it should be expected that they would side with the party that is more strongly against Israel. Just as one would expect Israelis getting shelled in Sderot to support the far right Israeli government that is currently in power. The cycle will self-escalate as a result of the hardening positions of both sides and it is time for the International community to abandon their respective biases and take a stand in favor of moderation.

  27. Reflect

    ‎"If, for some odd reason, you cannot decide whether it is official Israeli spokespersons or soldiers of conscience and human rights investigators who are telling the truth, consider this question: If Hamas has only managed to kill 3 people despite being bent on killing civilians with thousands of indiscriminate rockets, how has Israel managed to kill several dozen Palestinian civilians when it is using sophisticated precision weapons to avoid civilian casualties? In just one Israeli attack yesterday, Israel killed more Palestinian civilians in a matter of minutes than the total number of all Israelis killed by rocket fire from Gaza over the last 3 years. The truth is exposed by the utter disregard for civilian life we see in practice, reaffirmed by testimonies and investigative evidence."

  28. Liberté Egalité Fraternité  

    Go see the movie "Some of My Best Friends are Zionists."

    How can you even be talking about "us" if you can't let there be a "them" ?

    Israel is destined to it's own demise; it's own shame will betray it.

    It is all a lie. It has always been a lie. There are no olive trees in Israel.

    Not another dime for Israel's crime

  29. Liberté Egalité Fraternité  

    Yeah good idea.
    Then you'd be doing exactly what the Israeli state has been doing to Gaza for the past years.
    Who are you trying to fool with your songs at the sundial?
    I'm pretty sure your soldiers forgot how to sing the day they were turned into killing machines.

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