You can watch this fascinating talk from the comfort of your own home!

On Monday, the Union Theological Seminary held a talk as a part of Just Conversations, a series reflecting on the intersection of religion and racial justice. Dean Kelly Brown Douglas talked to Rima Vesely-Flad, a professor of Buddhism and Black Studies, and John J Thatamanil, a professor of theology and world religions. After brief introductory remarks, Dean Douglas began the discussion by discussing the recent rise in white Christian nationalism in America. While she observed this is not a new phenomenon, she describes how it sometimes “explodes” at times when they see themselves under attack. The first question she asked focused on the threat of this recent upswing. Prof. Thatamanil began his response by describing the “profound contradiction between the terms” in white Christian nationalism. Such a phrase, and the adherents to it, change Christianity to an identity marker that prompts an us-versus-them narrative antithetical to the heart of the religion—a desire for love. Prof. Vesely-Flad reflected on these remarks, describing how contemporary rhetoric even echoes the late nineteenth century debates on immigration: as she mentioned, Frederick Douglass had even spoken out on the way Christianity became equated with whiteness as a method to further racism against Asian immigrants—in such an argument, not only were they not white, they were also not Christian, and could therefore never be American. By regulating the idea of what counts as Christian—as Dean Douglas observed, modern discussions of sexuality fit in—white Christian nationalists construct an idea of the ‘proper citizen’ in an increasingly restrictive way. 

As a part of his response to the discussion of the recent upsurge of white Christian nationalism, Prof. Thatamanil introduced the phrase “affect engineering” to describe recent moral panics about ideas such as CRT: the goal is not to address the ideas of CRT, but instead to produce fear and anger. In reaction to this point, Dean Douglas asked the panel what the role of religious institutions should be to combat this fear. Prof. Vesely-Flad quoted Baldwin’s The Fire Next Time in response, answering more that the role of religious institutions should not be to repress anxieties one may have, but instead to face them, to ask what may be threatened.

Dean Douglas asked one final question, on the role of interreligious dialogue, and how we can move to a more complete interreligious and just society. Prof. Vessely-Flad, herself a Buddhist and scholar of Buddhism, answered this question by connecting ideas of impermanence across religions as an example of how this can be done. Holy Week (the week leading up to Easter) is around the corner and, as she described, is a week that can allow Christians to engage with the deep terror of witnessing the impermanence of life. While different from Buddhist traditions, her engagement in it highlights the ways that engaging in separate traditions can lead to a more complete understanding of justice and religion.

The conversation ended as Prof. Thatamanil left a final warning to those interested in ensuring white Christian nationalism does not spread. Affect engineering is effective, he argued, as the economic prospects of many weaken: to combat this, any conversation on this subject has to deal with the intersection of race, religion, and class.

The full talk is linked below and is relatively short (half an hour!) and I would highly recommend everyone listen to it. Each participant beautifully argued why practice and action should be centered, and noted how this does not go against theology, but is central to it. Prof. Vessely-Flad’s beautiful description of Holy Week highlights this argument—it is at the heart of this week to understand human suffering. Bringing this into the present is not against Christianity, but is essential to it. The talk is on YouTube right now—treat it like a podcast and listen to it the next time you have a short drive, walk, or chore to do!

Just Conversations is a series produced by the Union Theological Seminary. The complete playlist can be found here, and Monday’s talk can be found here.

Union Theological Seminary via Bwarchives