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Exactly one week after the events of October 4th, the College Republicans pulled off an event that didn’t erupt in violence, perhaps because it seemed as if more security guards were in attendance than students (find the measures Columbia may have taken to avoid a repeat here). Walid Shoebat and two others spoke to a half full Roone Arledge auditorium about how they were brainwashed as children to be terrorists and a Nazi operative, but have since seen the light and love the Jews. Love the Jews, and, in the words of former Lebanese terrorist Zachariah Anani, believe that the 9/11 bombers are the only real Muslims and everyone else is ignorant. “Thank God that the ignorants are much more,” he said.
Members of the Muslim Student Association decided to not attend the event. But earlier this evening, they found their office in the lower level of Earl Hall plastered with flyers headlined “Event at Columbia Challenges Muslim Groups.”
“It is interesting to note that the official line of Arab Student groups on campus is not to protest against us peacefully or even to turn up. Yet last week they chose to participate in a violent onslaught regarding a subject that is not directly relevant to their cause,” read the flyer, which has been confirmed to have come from the Walid Shoebat Foundation–they say they didn’t distribute the poster in Earl, but Shoebat press people were on campus today.
“It was clearly a bait,” said MSA president Omar Siddiqi, CC ’09, noting that he was glad they hadn’t postered the group’s prayer area in the month of Ramadan. “Every Columbia student should feel violated.”
– LBD
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@Lee Kaplan Walid Shoebat
Description: Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist who is now a peace activist will on campus. Shoebat will discuss his transformation from hate to love as a former terrorist. This lecture is excellent for anyone interested in homeland security, the Middle East, political science and history or just current events. Admission is free to UC Davis students with a student ID card. General admission seats are $12, and special reserved VIP seating is $25. VIP Tickets can be purchased by emailing walidevent@aol.com, regular tickets through the UC Davis box office, (530) 752-1915, 10 a.m.-5 p.m., Monday-Friday. This is expected to be a sold-out event, co-sponsored by the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and the Walid Shoebat Foundation, so attendees are advised to purchase or obtain tickets early. A question-and-answer session will follow. For more information on Walid Shoebat, visit http://www.shoebat.com or http://www.3xterrorists.com/.
Starting date: 2/6/2007 Ending date: 2/6/2007
Starting time: 7:00 PM Ending time: 9:00 PM
Event type: Lecture
Location: Freeborn Hall
Sponsored by: Associated Students of UC Davis
@Lydia How would you know what I look like without glasses? And don’t you have better things to do than make ill-informed judgments on a gossip blog?
@except And if you want to sepak of apartheid, please look at Dhimmitude.
I do wanna “sepak” of it.
Except for the fact that Dhimmitude is a practice that was forsaken by the Ottoman about 200 years ago while Apartheid is a reality for Palestinians in a land that belongs to THEM not natives of Brooklyn.
@correction is a reality today*
@V47 Who cares? He is just another zionist parrot.
The more important question is who is/are V47 and how many of them are out there on this campus?
@Ron Lewenberg I am not a terrorist apologist hiding behind a pseudonym unlike some. If you want to know who I am either ask politely or google me.
“Who cares? He is just another zionist parrot.”
No, I am a Zionist. As for parroting, I’m not the one cutting and pasting form worthlesspedia.
@who the fuck is ron lowenberg?
@Ron Lewenberg He was talking about the protestors disrupting the event, especially those who celebrated closing it down.
@conservatives are just pissed because they couldn’t fil the auditorium w/o a protest.
100+ rsvps last minute? sounds like an effort to try and import seat fillers.
or an effort to try and import a protest (in case the baiting of MSA failed)?
lets faee it, the turn out was low, the speakers thoroughly unimpressive and the questions indicative of 150 zionists hugging the latest arab uncle toms to come and tell them exactly what they want to hear to further their imperial desires.
@did you go? From what I’ve heard, the people who actually went to the event, who were interested and not already set against the speakers, thought it was really interesting. (I didn’t go, but I’m just saying. I’m glad those that wanted to got to hear the speakers.)
@The Real Real V47 It’s sad isn’t it?
Kuwalik, the minutemen, the rest of you?
You will suffer for the crimes of supported the ‘state’ of Israel, much as any murderer or arsonist has his day in court.
Rationalizing all of this in the abstraction of geopolity will only work so long.
@Ron Lewenberg “You will suffer for the crimes of supported the ‘state’ of Israel, much as any murderer or arsonist has his day in court.
Rationalizing all of this in the abstraction of geopolity will only work so long.”
1. Was that a terrorist threat?
2. Israel is a distinct nation-state.
The same cannot be said of “Palestine”.
@Lydia Actually, I just relocated to another part of the auditorium, where I stayed until the event ended.
And don’t tell me you never comment on events you didn’t attend.
@aww i heart lydia. if there was an award for cutest campus reporter, she would win.
@sure she’s a great person. but she honestly looks like a middle schooler
@honestly a sexy middleschooler
@hah hey. whatever floats your boat.
i don’t think she’s attractive though i will say that she’s one of the few people who look better w/glasses than w/o.
@90 percent of people here didn’t go to the event… what right do they have to comment? Or is it enough that they took a 3 setence clip from Lydia who (as I sat behind her) left an hour before the end of the show
@Anonymous Great title – I wonder if anyone followed your advice in a previous posting:
“We want pretty pictures of empty chairs,” said one Bwog source. “Forty people attend, and the thing collapses.”
under Item # 1 at: http://bwog.net/index.php?page=post&article_id=2325
You guys provide a great laugh to the rest of the world
@Anonymous Well I read the whole summary of meeting. Shoebat doesn’t sound very crazy in that exchange. By what I’ve read od Islam sure seems like Osama is the true follower of Mohammed. I don’t see protests in the streets of Arabia proper in objection to AlQueda deeds. Sure seems like the Muslim street agrees with AlQueda.
@yo ncreader you don’t know jack about islam. osama is decried in every muslim country as someone who exercises no restraint, compassion, or morality in any of his actions.
how do you claim to know what’s up “on the muslim street”? is it because fox news told you? or npr/bbs?
who says there exists a “muslim street”, and even if it does exist in all of its essentializing orientalizing glory, who says it represents islam with any accuracy?
for all of its supposed liberalism, columbia is filled with neo-german orientalists who continue their cheap scholarship for the same reason as their predecessors, to justify imperialist expeditions.
@why is spec news dept so in bed with zionists?
@bwog needs to edit cuz it is ramadan
@Digusted Kuliwik endorses this hatred? What a dick. I had no opinion on him until he sold out his school and agreed with O’Reilly’s gross generalizations about it, and until bringing this “non-terrorist muslims are the ignorant majority” hate. Nice to know how he really feels about some of his fellow students who don’t share his religion. This is like saying neo-nazis or KKK members that co-opted parts of their religion to justify atrocity are the real representatives of Christians or WWII era germans and the rest were the ignorant majority. Utterly digusting. But I don’t expect much more from a guy whose guests can go on national tv and assert that the arabic language in itself = denial of the holocaust. Wonder if he will bring guests that aren’t hateful racists this year or keep showing his true colors.
@Ron Summary of the speech.
Speakout event
From hate to love.
Timeline:
7:53 Chaplain Davis starts the event by noting the importance of free speech and civil discourse at the university.
7:57 Columbia University College Republican’s President Chris Kulawik starts by thanking those
Mentioned 120 people who had rsvped, but could not attend after the university limited the event to students, press, and the entourage of the speakers.
8:00 Zachariah Anani starts with family history and personal history and speaks of indoctrination in school. He had his first kill early at 15. However, he became disenchanted and came to believe that he would not reach 18
At 17, he became a Baptist. Zacharias was tried and condemned to death for apostasy.
Thereafter, he had 7 attempts on his life, one of which was ordered by his family. Moved to Christian half of Beirut and lived there until 1993. After christian militias lost the civil war, there was another attempt, during which he and his daughter were injured. He then fled to Canada.
Anani finished be speaking to western ignorance of Islam.
At 8:09 Hilmar von Campe starts. Adressing the events at Columbia last weekk, von Campe compares thugs from last week to the SA Brownshirts.
Von Campe talks about the socialist nature of the National Socialist German Workers Party.
He compares National Socialism to international communism
Von Campe claims that most Germans did not know about the Holocaust, but all knew of the hatred and official discrimination, which allowed it. Individuals opposed the discrimination. Churches did almost nothing. Von Campe finishes by noting communist involvement with PLO. Romanian intelligence and communist services fomented Islamic hatred of the west.
8:35 walid Shoebat begins He condemns the decision which left so many who had reservations to be left outside .
He starts by talking of his maternal grandfather, a former mayor of Erueka, CA. Shoebat then talks of his grandfather’s friend the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al Huseyni.
Shoebat talks of Palestiianist lies of the bible taught to him even in Lutheran grammar school
Shoebat then went to Muslim school and was indoctrinated in Islamic hatred of Jews. Taught Muslim Eshcatologic view that return of jews would lead to death of all jewish men and enslavement of the rest. Shoebat speaks of hatred taught in Egyptian academies. Speaks of how Palestinians and Muslims hate Jews and Christians for helping them, so foreign aid woll not help.
Americans are clueless as to the depths of Muslim hatred.
Shoebat spoke of aiding terrorism in the US as an interpreter for American Arab groups at colleges. Spoke of Islamist networks in the US, which are supported by too many Muslims.
Compared PC leftist mantras to those of Islamists.
Shoebat condemns Princeton for not letting him speak and Columbia for keeping out guests
Shoebat attacks professors for lying for islamists. He declared that “before we fight terrorist without, we must fight terrorists within “. Shoebat names Rashid Khalidi, Anders Strinberg, and others at Columbia.
8:57 Q and A begins
Q: What is to be learned from islam
Shoebat: Americans are falsely taught that islam was hijacked.
Spoke of genocidal hatred of Jews and jihad under Mohammed and the first caliphs.
IHe concludes that slam must be freed of jihad
Q European moderates question whether Islam is compatible with modernity
Shoebat: Moderates are unable to deal with Islamic Hadiths which call for jihad.
Only liberal Muslims are compatible as they can transcend this aspect of Islam.
Q. What of moderate Europeans who have begun to speak out
Zachariah Anani: They underestimate the problem, continuously giving way for co-existance.
Q. You speak of hate to love, but speeches hate muslims (aplause)
Shoebat responded by noting Christian anti-Semitism, in particular the writings of Martin Luther.
He then spoke Christian growth. Said that Islam must face shame to grow.
Q. What of cartoons of Mohammed and the response.
A.. Shoebat: We must face intellectual confrontation, not such simplifications.
Q. Role of clan in palestinian society.
Shoebat: Chieftains could work with Israelis. For this they were executed by Islamists and Palestinian nationalists.
Anani: Families install Muslim laws and threaten death to heretics.
Q. Did you say that Muslims should convert?
Shoebat: They should have the right to do so without threats.
Q. Where do we go from here?
Shoebat: I cannot teach tolerance under Hamas or the Palestinian Authority.
Things were better under the Israelis, but Muslims demand power.
Muslims should be allowed to debate internally. Sadly loyalty trumps truth.
I must fight Arabism and Islamist to be an American.
Q. Sayid Qutb said that America will be the easiest to Islamicize.
How fast is Islamicization occurring?
A. Walid: Muslim Brotherhood is quite active in the US.
Q. Bush used the term crusaders and is hated. Bush said Islamo-fascists and was condemned.
Zacharias Anani: Islamic fanaticism comes from Muslim past.
Good Muslims are or support terrorism. Ignorant Muslims are, fortunately, the majority.
Q. What of “Taqqiyah”
Shoebat: Lies create concessions. “Hudnas” are temporary cease fires and exist only as long as Muslims are weak.
The Oslo Hudna will bring no peace.
To many liberal American Jews fight me so that they may remain ignorant.
Concessions only embolden Muslims and encourage violence
Q. You expressed admiration for Martin Luther King, but what of Malcolm X’s use of Islam for justice. America is a society of hatred. All religions create hatred. Look at Baruch Goldstien.
A. America has problems but America condemns its evils. This does not occur in Muslim societies.
When Baruch Goldstien killed worshupers, isrealis condemned it.
Muslims celebrate violence and torture dissidents to death and carry around their dismembered bodies.
After the PLO came to power, Muslms killed each other in greater numbers.
Anani: You think american streets are violent, but look at Beirut for 30 years. Despite endemic domestic violence Muslims blame israel and the West.
Q. What did u tell your wife when she worried about you coming to columbia.
Von Campe: I dealt with stormtroopers before.
Q. What os the source of quotes on Roman general’s support for Islamists
Von Campe: The Internet, Wal Street Journal, and the book “Red Horizons”
Q. How do we convince people that iIlamist violence is not fault of the west
Shoebat: American professors use same language as Islamists do to indoctrinate.
Muslims suffer from projection propoganda. There claim about Zionists, Israel and the West exist, in part, because these are faults of Muslim societies.
There is a cult of victim hood used by Muslims, Nazis, and leftists in the us at columbia and Princeton.
Q. I am an ignorant Muslim who condemned 911. Why are you as an ex terrorist here and not in jail
Shoebat: I used liberal loopholes
Q. Every monotheist religion has a bad time. Can Islam change?
Shoebat: If a religious issue has been addressed before, then it cannot be addressed again liberally. Moderate Muslims cannot accept some unfortunate aspects of Islam.
Liberal muslims are fooling themselves but are well meaning.
All fundamentalists are not equal. I, as, a Christian fundamentalists give you a headache. Muslim fundamentalists will kill you. In America we separate church and state. Muslims make no difference between the two.
Anani : Muslims are required to conquer the world.
Hans. Most Americans are confused. Religion is not manmade and cannot be compared.
God made us. Commandments are made for all humanity.
America’s mission is freedom. But freedom can only exist with truth and religion.
Muslims must do what Germany did after ww2; they must compare themselves to truth.
@Sprinkles “Adressing the events at Columbia last weekk, von Campe compares thugs from last week to the SA Brownshirts.”
Was he referring to the protestors or the Minutemen themselves?
@protesters i think he called them stormtroopers
@The Real V47 Isn’t it quite the coincidence that the 5th of November is also the day that Meir Kahane got shot to death in this very city?
@good god most of you want to make me puke.
once I graduate I can go back to living in my hole where I don’t have to deal with ignorant people who are hopelessly deluded into thinking they’re well informed. at least in my hole the ignorant are well aware of their ignorance.
good riddance to all of you.
@thanks for the rant. enjoy new jersey.
@i dont understand the indoctrination arguement. 50% of kids don’t go to class after the first 2 weeks, 75% of the professors don’t care about class cause they’re doing their own research. The only people who really could be indoctrinated are people who sit in front and answer all the professors’ questions, and there are like 5-10 people in each class like that, which everyone else feels resentful at.
@papers are graded by ta’s. i’m not conservative, but i’ve definitely geared papers w/an eye towards my ta’s views.
@V47 Remember, remember, the 5th of November.
@Anonymous I have to add though, even if he does say that he has concerns about his safety, I applaud him for leaving his information in the directory available to the public and having an openly accessible facebook profile. That’s kind of ballsy. Only kind of though.
@Anonymous I am interested to follow Kulawik’s career path. I feel almost certain that he will goto a conservative think tank that will nurture and coddle his beliefs in yet another bubble.
Don’t think that there is no conservative bubble at Columbia. It may be a reaction to a larger liberal bubble on campus, but it is an insulated bubble nonetheless.
@a conservative bubble? if you actually know chris you’ll know he doesn’t live in a conservative bubble. In fact, its impossible to considering his major and the fact that well 75% of conservatives on the campus either don’t talk about politics or aren’t particularly vocal.
I mean, i’m sure chris has always gotten supportive reactions from his column.
@hmm. In a world where wonderful things like this exist:
http://www.pentrix.com/videos/video.php?v=infinitynormal.swf
Why can’t we all just get along?
@Lydia You may notice that certain comments on this thread have been deleted. Bwog is a forum for free speech, but not for veiled threats or the posting of others’ personal information. Please review our comment policy for further clarification.
@David “because we haven’t seem islamic terrorists repeatedly hide in and use as basis areas such as hospitals. hell there are fucking pictures w/hezbollah doing so.”
Nice. Making excuses for the mass murder of civilians and children, asshole.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/
“The Israeli government claims that it targets only Hezbollah, and that fighters from the group are using civilians as human shields, thereby placing them at risk. Human Rights Watch found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack. Hezbollah occasionally did store weapons in or near civilian homes and fighters placed rocket launchers within populated areas or near U.N. observers, which are serious violations of the laws of war because they violate the duty to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties. However, those cases do not justify the IDF’s extensive use of indiscriminate force which has cost so many civilian lives. In none of the cases of civilian deaths documented in this report is there evidence to suggest that Hezbollah forces or weapons were in or near the area that the IDF targeted during or just prior to the attack.”
http://hrw.org/reports/2006/lebanon0806/2.htm#_Toc142299220
“cause people didn’t evacuate fallujah as american troops were massing”
You’ll say the same thing to justify the carpet-bombing of Southern Lebanon, I’m sure. Since when does anyone have the right to order cities to be evacuated so that they can be bombed? If Osama had said, OK clear out of New York, on 9/9 would that have made 9/11 ok?
Bigot.
@the blog so here’s the not at all updated former cr’s blog which i pulled up from a libertarian blog post http://columbiacrs.blogspot.com/
it doesn’t appear to be a particularly nutty blog. i’m assuming the bloggers all graduated except kulawik
@has bwog ever thought to interview these College republicans or at least their board? Maybe we can have bwog readers send in questions for them.
@I do blame 100 empty seats on the RSVP. It was an arbitrary last minute unprecedented decision that put 380 seats open to CUID holders. the room would have been more than 3.4 filled with all of the people that were turned away in an unprecedented move.
unless you know the facts you shouldnt comment as if you were involved in the decision or the organization of the event.
@progressive democracies??
Whats your idea of a progressive democracy? Sandanistas? Cuba? North Korea?
invading countries over the past five years, you bet your a** we did. Afghanastan which harbored Bin Laden and was the staging grounds for an attack that killed 3,000 innocent americans, and also was the place of the most oppressive regime in the world.
Certainly, someone as progressive as yourself cant say that the Taliban was great given the way they treated women.
And I stand by the liberationn of Iraq. yes there is sectarian violence there (over who is the rightful successor of the prophet), but in any nascient democracy there is going to be infighting.
or maybe you considered Sadaam one of your fellow progressives
@nice job props to msa for elevating the discourse.
@trust me im sure with two people doing the same job in every part of the columbia bureaucracy, one person made a decision and another made a different one, its incompetence
@offensive I think that what people in this forum are failing to realize is the fact that the actions that the Republicans and other groups are taking in inviting such inflammatory speakers is alienating minority communities at Columbia, and as members of the larger community, that should concern us. Just my 2 cents.
@yeah? “If the other side would folow some sort of code or rules of engagement, then I would be wholeheartedly against this tactic, but since they play be absolutely no rules whatsover, are merciless, cruel and downright uncivilized, we have to take the proper steps to protect our citizens.”
I know what you mean, man. Like at Abu Ghraib, right?
I mean we reduced Fallujah, a city of about 300,000 to absolute rubble. Bombed the hospital first, so that they couldn’t report on who was dying.
Then bombed the rest of the city, so that by the end there were 20,000 people left. But I know some Iraqi had done something similar to a US city. Right? ummm…
@uh oh we’ve gone conspiracy theorist on this thing.. yeah, cause people didn’t evacuate fallujah as american troops were massing. or because we haven’t seem islamic terrorists repeatedly hide in and use as basis areas such as hospitals. hell there are fucking pictures w/hezbollah doing so.
and as for abu ghraib. it ws reprehensible, but do you want to throw out how many soldiers committed such abuses versus how many we have there and hten talk about how each of them were punished criminally for it?
see that’s the problem. all you have is propaganda and hatred of america while even when parts of our military fail or do soemthing wrong, at least we have checks and the vibrant voice of dissenters (including those such as answer protestors) who make sure that we punish ourselves for stupid thing
but hey keep on invoking the name of israel, trying to claim the republicans are a bigoted organization w/o backing, the mainstream press has just mistranslated poor miunderstood ahmadinejad and we’ll see how that works out for you
@it wasnt incompetence, youll be able to read about it in the am. It was a conscious decision by the adminstration to exclude the people on the list, AFTER the reservations were confirmed and people left to come attend the event.
@dont dare blame the empty seats on the RSVPs. All people turned away were non-cuid holders. There were seats for 380 cuid holders, maybe less than half of those were occupied.
@a good chunk of those 380 were meant for the outside rsvps.
by the way, college dem and msa members, you really don’t need to be anonymous anymore
@unprecidented this was not. the finkelstein event had a cancellation of almost 180 rsvps, before students, who were running the rsvp list, threatened to cancel the event altogether if the rsvps weren’t reinstated.
however minutemen had no rsvp outside guests, just 15 (now infamous) entourage members and 385 columbia students.
tonight’s auditorium was set for 350 and maybe half full. bottom line: chris can no longer fill roone arledge, even at this minimal capacity, w/ students.
attention minority groups!: this is the new model. DONT TAKE KULAWIK’S BAIT. empty seats show how fringe and unwanted these speakers are on campus.
@ummm “Calling for the destruction of the state of Israel, saying it should be wiped off the map.”
Yeah, find me that quote. Where? Actually you’re citing a single ridiculously mistranslated line that actually said something entirely different.
And yeah, the Holocaust denial is fucked. It’s an expression of the fact that every time Israel invades someone or kills more Palestinians, the Holocaust is invoked to deflect all anger. His main overall point is that the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust, and shouldn’t be punished for it.
But it’s pretty funny that someone in the US, which has been invading people left and right over the last five years, which has a long history of supporting the most reactionary dictatorships in the world and destroying progressive democracies through the most violent means, is talking about the destruction of civilization.
Again, what war has Iran started? Who’s the real threat?
@The reality is that we are at war with those who would do us harm, mortal harm. If you are naive enough to believe that if we just leave the poor extremists alone they will not bother us anymore you are not being naive you are being ignorant.
It is a war, American blood has been shed and we need to protect our people to ensure that it is not shed again, that innocent lives are not shed because we dont follow a persons religion.
Its plain and simple, appeasement wont work as a policy here, so, if in the course of this war we have to engage in forms of extracting information that you deem to be torture, then this has to be. Im sure its rare and isolated, and of course if it can be avoided it should be, but if it means saving thousands of lives, then, war is war.
If the other side would folow some sort of code or rules of engagement, then I would be wholeheartedly against this tactic, but since they play be absolutely no rules whatsover, are merciless, cruel and downright uncivilized, we have to take the proper steps to protect our citizens.
@is it possible that the rsvps that were reneged were done by incompetence by the Columbia bureaucracy…Come on, if you ever tried reserving rooms or getting rooms opened u know how that can go horribly wrong for your club. Trust me when I say not getting RSVP to 100 people isnt the worst thing in the world (events are double booked in the same room at the same time sometimes)
@i don't know the room obviously had tons of open seats and apparently had great security. And if these rsvps were done a couple days in advance, even if it was a beauracratic mistake, columbia should have worked this out better.
They’re just coming out w/more egg on their face. Does anybody know when that santorum event is?
@heh try reserving rooms 3 months in advance and having the rooms double booked the day of the event, now that is frustrating
@Oh shit That’s pretty tough sounding. But has nothing to do with any reality.
Please most of the prisoners in Guatanamo were tortured for a while and then released because it turns out they had nothing to do with anything.
Most of the rest comes from organizations that the US sponsored at one point or another. Like Al-Qaeda founded by that long-time US ally Osama Bin Laden. Or the Taliban, which was backed by the Clinton Administration.
Hell, in 1985 Ronald Reagan invited a group of anti-Soviet fighters from Afghanistan to the white house. There he had a reception for them and called them “The Moral equivalent of the founding fathers.” Among them was Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, a big time international heroin dealer and the largest recipient of US aid in Afghanistan in the 1980s. He now the most powerful non-Taliban warlord fighting the US in southern Afghanistan.
But you support torture. I think that’s incredibly fucked up, but I guess you have your reasons.
@I never understand this argument. so if the us government did do something wrong (though you can legitimately claim those choices were the better of two evils) they shouldn’t correct their wrong? So like, if europe realized they hadnt done shit about the holocaust they suddenly shouldn’t try to stop any more deaths on principle?
Really flawed stuff.
@Did I say hes a madman, i meant psychopath. Denying the holocaust for one would immediately qualify him.
Second trying to develop nuclear weapons to be used to anihilate other countries, no wait entirely civilizations, that another quality of a psychopath.
Calling for the destruction of the state of Israel, saying it should be wiped off the map. These are FACTS, direct quotes from him not heresay. I dont deal in heresay.
So please if you think that ahmedinejad is not a lunatic who is a danger to the world, then you have lost any moral high ground you may have had.
@PQ69 V47 lives in schapiro too guys
but come on, if he can’t live out his wachowski inspired fantasy life (I wouldn’t give him credit to read moore) on the bwog, what else would he have?
let a boy have his fun on his internets
@no one ever said war was pretty. But when one side of the war fights with absolutely no rules of engagement, with no remorse, with no dignity one must fight back in anyway it can to protect its citizens. The enemy we fight now is unlike none before.
War is just that war. Just remember it wasnt a war that we declared, the war was brought to us, and its not one that can go into the “tie” column. If we lose this war, we lose period.
@Ahmadinejad A madman?
I’m sorry, what wars has he started? Who has Iran invaded recently?
And does he have nukes? No wait, that’s the US and the Israelis, who also shared their nuclear technology with apartheid south africa.
@you don't have to have started a war to be a madman. otherwise bedlam would have been a lonely place.
he’s already said inflamatory and anti-semitic things and is on the verge of having nukes.
if you want to criticize the US and israel, thats cool, because i don’t agree w/their nuke policy either. but that doesn’t mean ahmadinejad is any less crazy
@Ron Lewenberg “A madman?
I’m sorry, what wars has he started? Who has Iran invaded recently?”
Iran attacked Israel via its proxy, Hizbullah, and rejoiced in the deaths of the Lebanese.
“And does he have nukes? No wait, that’s the US and the Israelis, who also shared their nuclear technology with apartheid south africa.”
South African apartheid was evil, but pales in comparison with the endemic ethnic violence in Africa.
And if you want to sepak of apartheid, please look at Dhimmitude.
For all their many faults the leaders of South Africa did not believe tha the deaths of their own people would lead to the comming of the Messiah
Ahmadinejad is a radical Twelver who believes that it is his duty to pave the way for the Mahdi in blood.
The threat of Mutually Assured Destruction means nothing to him. Instead, it is a promise or divine victory.
@Torture as for torturing people in Gitmo, please give me a break. Go read the north Korean or chinese manual on torture and get back to me whether anyone is being tortured. Wow sleep deprivation!!! If thats torture then every college student is being tortured.
Um, sleep deprivation, waterboarding (mock drowning), force feeding people with dirty little tubes that you keep down their throats until they throw up blood. Beating the shit out of them.
Nah, no torture there.
@are you seriously comparaing ahmedinejad to Shoebat.
ahmedinejad is a madman and a threat to not only the United States but to the entire world. I dont think Shoebat is trying to develop nuclear weapons to drop on those who dont believe what he believes, ahmedinejad is.
Huge Difference.
@I am the one who made the comment about Sakib and I want it clear that I think MSA’s protest was handled with class, they did it in a way that was in complete contrast to the mayhem caused last week by the ISO and their cronies, Kudos to them.
As for scorching Shoebat, are you saying that their experiences as muslims do not count? That they never went through the things they said on stage? Im wondering what you mean?
as for torturing people in Gitmo, please give me a break. Go read the north Korean or chinese manual on torture and get back to me whether anyone is being tortured. Wow sleep deprivation!!! If thats torture then every college student is being tortured.
@so hypocritical that bollinger issues a statement against ahmedinejad but not these clowns. bullshit.
@if you can’t detect a discernable difference then you’ve really got messed up views
@the difference is that ahmedinejad threatens israel, but shoebat threatens muslims?
@yeah that’s precisely it. when you can find me a quote where shoebat ‘threatens’ muslims as opposed to just begin credulous about the religion after himself having done horrible things in its name as seeing others do the same then i’ll agree
and what a surprise. the isreal word came up in 2 exchanges w/you
@come on bwog shut down this V47 kid
he’s clearly violating comment policy
@ummm “well intended. Instead of hearing the same opinions, the same discourse, instead of having students look into a mirror and not have to face any real issues or real dissent the CR’s offered up an alternative to the staple of repetitive opinions that is offered here.”
Man that’s deep. Yeah. Except that these days bigotry against Arabs and Muslism tends to have bombs at the tail end of it.
See speech doesn’t exist in a vacume. And lies and slanders against Muslims are being used right to justify wars, special renditions, torturing people at Guantanamo, racial profiling of all types.
Do you see then when why events like this are incredibly fucked up? Why people get angry?
@yeah and speech even about the muslim religion can result in violent widespread protests in countries across the world, politicians having to go into hiding under the fear of death threats, and journalists slain because they chose to write a peace which offended some extremist
you can back down coward. challenging a religion about the actions it may be encouraging is ok when its christianity, but suddenly taboo when its something else
@V47 no one is afraid of you, you are nothing but a sniveling coward. Come out in the open and makie threats, you wouldnt have the guts to stand toe to toe with anyone.
and since when is truth defamatory?
@V47 Chris Kulawik should be worried about his safety on campus. Maybe he will think twice next time he wants to bring speakers who defame Islam, no?
Fear is a wonderful weapon, every Republican should be highly aware of that.
@wow. you’re doing a great job trying to confirm the stupid rhetoric of clowns like shoebat
@hey bwog it is ramadan and CR did go to the MSA’s prayer space and seek out the place Muslims use for worship to try and bait them into a minuteman style reaction. that’s absolutely sick.
@I'm a CR at columbia. If one of our members is proven to have done this, that’s pretty sick and I agree we’ll like see if we should have some intra club punishment. But until it is proven, I’d ask you refrain from smearing us w/this. If you do have evidence of who did it, you can send that to the eboard of the club.
@this was well intended. Instead of hearing the same opinions, the same discourse, instead of having students look into a mirror and not have to face any real issues or real dissent the CR’s offered up an alternative to the staple of repetitive opinions that is offered here.
What you find offensive others find enlightening. you dont llike it because it directly conflicts with your opinion and with your view on the state of matter, but heres something that you refuse to acknowledge. People have opinions that differ from yours, and they are valid. People think your take on the situation, on the state of muslim affairs, on the affect that some who practice islam have on the world is wrong, and they are entitled to that opinion just as you are entitled to believe that your version, your take your opinion is right.
Why is it that you can only stand it when people validate what you say and believe?
@student i saw the flyer, and it definitely had more inflammatory commentary than what is posted here. i was really offended – it was an attempt at intimidation and bullying that i’ve felt over and over again on campus. although it might not have been put there by them, the republicans should stop trying to push people’s buttons and provide opportunities for hate speech and lies and do something well-intended for once.
@ok. again make cases for ‘hate speech’ and ‘lies’ before making accusations. and political issues are usually hotly debated controversial issues. people will have their buttons pushed if they want to engage with the subject. we can’t all just get in a room and jack off to pictures on bush side by side w/monkeys.
the flyer thing on the msa’s room however was unnecessary and disrespectful and should not have happened
@this is absolutely fucking ridiculous. has this school gone completely insane. that’s it. i’m done.
@Question Why was the head of SGB who is supposed to be neutral (yeah right) the only one who a real beligient question.
Also, why did he support one gropus protest (MSA) over anothers. Isnt that a conflict for someone who is the President of SGB?
@how did sakib favor msa’s protest? additionally, msa’s protest was not going to the event–which is incidently why turnout from columbia students was poor. the number of outside visitors at this event was slightly greater than for the minuteman event, yet minuteman filled up with opponents of the group that gave them a full auditorium.
msa’s protest didn’t involve shouting down a speaker or denying a right to speak. it was simply a choice not to grace shoebat with their presence.
go MSA for showing some class.
@i agree that msa’s protest was a much better route than minutemen. I wish MSA had gone though and just scorched Shoebat in the question and answer but its their right not to hear speeches they feel defame their religion.
Apparently from the malkin blog, so far 77 people have reported getting last minute scrubbings of their rsvps.
@word has it 115 rsvps got scrubbed last minute. who at columbia is responsible for this?
@V47 I am.
@BTW Am I the only one whose mind is utterly blown that the CU Republicans sponsored/invited a speaker who believes “that the 9/11 bombers are the only real Muslims and everyone else is ignorant,” and it’s probably not going to even be a campus issue at this point?
Are we so used to CU Republicans conflating conservatism with these kinds of bigots/crazies that it’s not even noteworthy?
@it's definitely not something i agree with even as a republican. but there are definitely even academic voices that have questioned how violent a religion islam lends itself to be through the koran. From my readings in classes i feel its not anymore violent than other religioius texts, but i’ll let a former terrorist who makes that statement pass this time because he probably has a different perspective than i do. Doesn’t mean I believe him. i probably should have braved the rain for this event.
By the way, personal info shoudl definitely not be allowed to be posted.
@ugh again. provide proof the minutemen are bigots before making a fool of yourself. This event was certainly more questionable, though i think the past histories of the speakers probably outweighed some of their reprehensible views. But before that Ashcroft and d’souza definitely weren’t examples of bigots.
@Ron Lewenberg A key element of conservatism is facing the world as it is, not as we wish it to be.
Saying “Islam is a Religion of Peace” and calling those who question the statement bigots does not make it so.
The bigots are those who allow the preconcieved notions to prejudice their opinions on the matter. They want to believe that every religion in equal, that all ideas are equal, or that history doesn’t matter.
Russell Kirk would not have approved.
@yikes this isn’t good:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006103.htm
http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archives/009290.shtml
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2006/10/columbia_uninvi.html
http://dailyinfidel.blogspot.com/2006/10/unbecoming-columbia-bars-public-from.html
@I am pretty sure that its not appropriate for BWOG to leave the address of a student up there, in what is certainly an attempt by the inane drone V47 to instigate people to defame, poster or carry out some other act at Chris’s dorm.
As for the other completely inane comment, that being Siddiqi, that everyone should feel violated, please, dont even get me started. No one was violated, it seems as if Mr. Siddiqi doesnt want to hear the words of former muslims who have since renounced the religion (for which they were sentenced to death.)
Also kudos to BWOG for trying to paint the event as sparsely attended when the university, hours before the event excluded more than 100 CONFIRMED guests. I guess that with those 100 you might have had to choose another catch phrase. Good going BWOG.
@agree w/your first paragraph, and not with your second.
you realize that both would involve instances of postering a private room?
@Anonymous Why exactly would the MSA want to hear the words of former terrorists telling them that real muslims are terrorists?
I applaud them for not getting baited into that kind of nonsense by Shoebat’s group and whoever helped them flyer. As for feeling violated, I’m not sure what that even means, but I’m not such a dick that I will go around calling people names about it.
Maybe the radical left at Columbia should have a string of speakers that talk about how Columbia Republicans eat babies and hate everyone, and then the Republicans can show up and excercise their support for free speech by attentively listening. More than likely they wouldn’t show up, because like Shoebat’s flyers to the MSA, it is silly baiting.
@hey bwog. can we have post #3 removed. If you want to post his mailbox that’s fine, but his address, thouggh still available online, is a little unfair considering he purportedly already worries about his safety.
@Walid is despicable.
@There's already a minor firestorm over the outside folks who rsvp’ed apparently days in advance and were told this afternoon their rsvp’s were being reneged. Good job avoiding controversy columbia!
It looks like there were a significant number too, like >50.
By the way, the msa poster thing was pretty despicable.