176 CommentsSince the news broke Saturday morning that President Obama will be Barnard’s Commencement speaker, Bwog has been more or less blowin’ up with commenters’ reactions. Today, the folks over at the New York Times labelled the chaos “sibling rivalry,” and asked Columbia administrators and students what they make of it.
PrezBo bit—quoteth the NYT:
Lee C. Bollinger, the president of Columbia University, drew a distinction between the harsh comments, which he said “reflect the views of hardly more than just a few people,” and the disappointment that “reflects the sense of enormous connection with the president as an alum.”
“It’s completely understandable,” he added.
DSpar got in on the action too, with a response we’ll just file under “apt.”
Debora L. Spar, the president of Barnard, said the relationship with Columbia was complicated and at times tense, but she dismissed the online commentary as what “probably is 19-year-olds writing at 4:30 in the morning.”
Read the article in its entirety for more responses from the Columbia community (including a cheeky kicker from DSpar!).
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176 Comments
@DEAR NYT obama hated columbia for a reason.
@Anonymous May I remind the low-life double-digit IQ CC students participating in this argument, that for Obama this was NEVER a decision of Barnard vs Columbia for his platform to discuss women’s issues. It would have been about Barnard vs Wellesley or Smith, or Vassar, etc. Columbia NEVER ENTERED into Obamas choice. So quit beating up your fellow students over something that was NEVER TO BE. IMHO Lee Bollinger has been the biggest jerk in the entire discussion. What an ass.
@DSPAR Seriously fuck that self-promoting biatch. She clearly doesn’t give two shits about Barnard,and her dismissive attitude is downright disgusting. I would like to see her reaction to people pillaging Georgetown’s name.
@Anonymous ╔══════════════ღ☃ღ══════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ you are a strong independent columbian ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ who don’t need no obama ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚══════════════ღ☃ღ══════════════╝
@holy shit every one of you needs to get punched in the mouth
@where's the love? Ain’t no love, in the heart of the city
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QePjIIBI-sI
@Anonymous A quarter-century after women became the majority on college campuses, men are trailing them in more than just enrollment.
Department of Education statistics show that men, whatever their race or socioeconomic group, are less likely than women to get bachelor’s degrees — and among those who do, fewer complete their degrees in four or five years. Men also get worse grades than women.
And in two national studies, college men reported that they studied less and socialized more than their female classmates.
Small wonder, then, that at elite institutions like Harvard, small liberal arts colleges like Dickinson, huge public universities like the University of Wisconsin and U.C.L.A. and smaller ones like Florida Atlantic University, women are walking off with a disproportionate share of the honors degrees.
It is not that men are in a downward spiral: they are going to college in greater numbers and are more likely to graduate than two decades ago.
Still, men now make up only 42 percent of the nation’s college students. And with sex discrimination fading and their job opportunities widening, women are coming on much stronger, often leapfrogging the men to the academic finish.
“The boys are about where they were 30 years ago, but the girls are just on a tear, doing much, much better,” said Tom Mortenson, a senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education in Washington.
from: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/education/09college.html?pagewanted=all
@Anonymous Oh, man, why do I have to be the one to say this?
Girls perform better in college in part because they tend towards non-STEM majors. Women are still massively underrepresented in the natural sciences, engineering, and math. Let’s not get complacent and act like we’ve finally closed the achievement gap between the sexes. We’re making progress, but we still have a couple decades or so ahead of us.
@Anonymous Have you even read the comments on the article? “Cumdumpster”, “feminazi” are just a couple of the words used to describe Barnard girls. Don’t dare try to trivialize this.
@OK, that's it I’m going to summarize the comments both from this article and the original in one sentence;
WAAH WAAAH WAAAH WAAAH WAAAH.
@Columbian's Side Can someone please contribute a piece from the perspective of a rational Columbia student? Barnard students have taken this as an opportunity to speak out on various blogs and turn this into a debate on sexism, which it is not. This is not an attack of the status of women — this debate is the reemergence of the age-old debate of what the relationship between Barnard and Columbia should be. Columbia students who are speaking out do not appreciate the facade that Barnard students put up of attending Columbia. They attend Barnard and should not be ashamed to admit it and hide behind the Columbia name. The time has come to rethink the Barnard-Columbia relationship and it is important to all have the voice of Columbia heard so that we are not incorrectly portrayed by blogs and news outlets as monsters.
@SEAS '14 (Male) Have you even read the comments on the article? “Cumdumpster”, “feminazi” are just a couple of the words used to describe Barnard girls. Don’t dare try to trivilizae this.
@CC male Do you have any idea who wrote the “cum dumpster” and “feminazi” comments? And even if you could conclusively prove that each comment was made by a different CC student, those hurtful comments comprised a small proportion of CC input. Finally, the selection bias inherent in these blog posts distorts CC sentment (what kind of CC/BC students would be attracted to a forum like this? CC students who think, “gee whiz, isn’t that nice for Barnard. I’m gonna comment to congratulate them”?).
@BOLD AT BARNARD There is no facade. Barnard students obtaining a Columbia University degree does NOT devalue your education, work ethic, or intelligence. END OF STORY. Barnard students who pretend to be Columbia College students are embarrassing themselves.
If you are not getting called out for sexism, you will get called out for elitism. Either way your behavior will receive a much deserved label. Please let me escort you off of your high horse.
@Anonymous “Columbia students who are speaking out do not appreciate the facade that Barnard students put up of attending Columbia. They attend Barnard and should not be ashamed to admit it and hide behind the Columbia name. The time has come to rethink the Barnard-Columbia relationship and it is important to all have the voice of Columbia heard so that we are not incorrectly portrayed by blogs and news outlets as monsters.”
key point!!!! this is very true. i want to post this on every facebook profile i see that does this. and yet posts about being a strong beautiful Barnard women then reps the CU emblem on their fb and resume
– a proud BC student
@CC 07 So the NYtimes/jezebel coverage drove me back here to see what all the fuss was about. And I have to say, you know how much anyone gives a shit who your graduation speaker was 5 minutes after they are done speaking? NONE. We had Matthew Fox. The entire class threw a shit fit, suggested protesting etc etc. And guess what he gave an amazing and moving speech. And after that speech was over we went to lunch with our families drank champagne and graduated. Who the fuck CARES who your graduation speaker is. It is going to be an amazing bittersweeet day(yes even those of you that think you hate Columbia will feel a little sad) and then you will move on and realise the real world has way fucking bigger problems than Barnard/Columbia bullshit rivalry and who got the better graduation speaker.
@Anonymous CAPITAL LETTERS
@I-Care Cat What I think is that every one needs a nice hug and a lesson of the I-care cat basic rules:
1.We listen to each other.
2. Hands are for helping not hurting.
3. We use I-Care Language.
4. We care about each others feelings.
5. We are responsible for what we say and do.
Maybe if everyone watches this, everything will be better. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLsyNBnE5M
@Anonymous i bet the thumbs down for the two lasts posts are from BARNARD.
get with the program! ITS THE 21ST CENTURY!!
WELLSLEY IS ON ITS OWN. AND THEIR THRIVING. PRODUCING BETTER ALUMNI THAN YOUR SCHOOL.
its for bARNARD’S sake not Columbia’s
@Anonymous Wow, Barnard, posing as a Columbia student with a broken caps lock key? You’re not fooling anyone.
@bc'13 http://www.change.org/petitions/barnard-college-and-columbia-university-stand-in-solidarity-with-the-women-of-barnard-and-columbia-against-misogyny
@Anonymous ok- let the numbers speak Barnard is ranked 33 in the nation. columbia is number 4.
other women colleges=
Wellesley. number 4,
smith number 19,
bryn mawr number 25,
and mount holyoke 29.
Many years ago, the sisters schools were created to INTEGRATE women into the ivy league education system. where the hell is barnard up to now? ranked as number 33. oh come ON!
they dont deserve to be with us at graduation, they dont deserve our diploma.
columbia does care about the numbers so should they.
because of their low rankings, it makes Barnard look like a sorry bunch of women.
HERES A QUESTION DEAN SPAR. WHY NOT, UNDER YOUR ADMINISTRATION, DISASSOCIATE YOUSELF FROM COLUMBIA!!!!????
IS THAT SIMPLE , FELLOW SISTERS LIKE…..Like Vassar did from Yale and Wellesley did from Harvard!!!
OR WHAT, ARE YOU STILL IN IT FOR:
THE MONEY? THE DIPLOMA? OUR BLUE GOWNS?
YOUR STUDENTS TAKING CU CLASSES? SHARING FACULTY? LABS? WHAT IS IT!???
BARNARD TAKES ENOUGH MONEY FROM ITS STUDENTS!
USE IT FOR GOOD—-BUILD MORE ACADEMIC BUILDINGS AND RENOVATE YOUR LIBRARY!!!
Prove to society, once and for all, what A REAL women can do on their own, without the HELP OR AFFILIATION of a prior male dominated school.
we should be attacking the ADMINISTRATION NOT THE STUDENTS WHO ATTEND BARNARD. THE ADMINISTRATION is RESPONSIBLE for keeping its AFFILIATION WITH COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY.
PERHAPS WHEN THEY DO dis-affiliate and strives on its own, it can be like Wellesley (strong Hillary Clinton women! ohh yeah).
@LULZ LIKE OMG STOP USING CAPITAL LETTERZZZZZZZ
@Anonymous …do you seriously not know the difference between Wellelsey and Radcliffe?
@anon Bitch, generations of Barnard women (particularly the ones who went to Barnard before ’83 and legitimately considered themselves Columbia students) have been sending paychecks to Columbia University for a hundred years. That’s actually one of Barnard’s biggest financial problems – in addition to paying a huge fee each year for the use of CU facilities and classes (AND some of our professors teach your classes, and more CU kids eat at Hewitt than BC kids do at John Jay), Barnard is losing a shitload of potential donor money to Columbia because so many of our older grads are under the impression that sending money to CU will also contribute to BC. So shut the fuck up, you aren’t losing a dime.
@Anonymous If Barnard is actually losing a substantial amount of money because its alumni are donating funds to the wrong institution, then they’re idiots. Do your goddamn homework before you write a check.
@THE 7 SISTER SCHOOLS ok- let the numbers speak Barnard is ranked 33 in the nation. columbia is number 4.
other women colleges=
Wellesley. number 4,
smith number 19,
bryn mawr number 25,
and mount holyoke #29.
Many years ago, the sisters schools were created to INTEGRATE women into the ivy league education system. where the hell is barnard up to now? ranked as number 33. oh come ON!
they dont deserve to be with us at graduation, they dont deserve our diploma.
columbia does care about the numbers so should they.
because of their low rankings, it makes Barnard look like a sorry bunch of bitches.
HERES A QUESTION DEAN SPAR. WHY NOT, UNDER YOUR ADMINISTRATION, DISASSOCIATE YOUSELF FROM COLUMBIA!!!!????
IS THAT SIMPLE , FELLOW SISTERS LIKE…..Like Vassar did from Yale and Wellesley did from Harvard!!!
OR WHAT, ARE YOU STILL IN IT FOR:
THE MONEY? THE DIPLOMA? OUR BLUE GOWNS? YOUR STUDENTS TAKING CU CLASSES? SHARING FACULTY? LABS? WHAT IS IT!???
YOU TAKE ENOUGH MONEY FROM YOUR STUDENTS USE IT FOR A GOOD CAUSE AND BUILD MORE ACADEMIC BUILDINGS AND RENOVATE YOUR LIBRARY!
Prove to society, once and for all, what A REAL women can do on their own, without the HELP OR AFFILIATION of a prior male dominated school.
we should be attacking the ADMINISTRATION NOT THE STUDENTS WHO ATTEND BARNARD. THE ADMINISTRATION is RESPONSIBLE for keeping itself affiliated with COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY.
@A VOICE OF REASON You are 100% correct! I have no idea how the USNR comes up with these ranking but Barnard’s ranking is unacceptable. I think the issue here is that we are too reliant on Columbia’s resources. Of course it doesn’t make sense for us to have duplicates of every department but I would love it if Barnard had its own math department, among others. I think we should move to a consortium system (one where we share classes and dining halls) and work on improving Barnard as an institution. We have already made valuable contributions to society and continue to send out some the best and brightest students into the world. If keeping Barnard apart of the CU community and removing the Columbia name from the Barnard degree would help improve the self-esteem of CC students, I support it one hundred percent. You are 100% correct. I do not deserve a Columbia University degree because I do not deserve to be subjected to hatred and misogyny. I do not deserve to have insults hurled at me because a prominent American figure DECIDES to speak to me. I do not deserve to be taunted about the quality of my intelligence. I deserve a diploma that reflects my choice: Barnard College.
Our new provost is from Haverford College (ranked #10). I cannot wait to see what positive changes she will bring to the school.
@Um, no. Obama did not DECIDE. His political advisors made the recommendation as a CALCULATED political move during an election year.
@*Sarcastic Voice* Yes … because Barnard College is the only women’s college in America. He could have chosen any women’s college from Mills, to Scripps, to Stevens, to Bryn Mawr, but he chose Barnard. Please think outside of your Morningside bubble.
@Not quite He actually couldnt, a lot of schools also require the speaker to be somehow affiliated with the university, whether from attending undergraduate or graduate school, so it was easiest for Obama to speak at Barnard just because it is affiliated to Columbia.
@BARNARD Scripps doesn’t. Wellesley doesn’t. Mills doesn’t. Bottomline: Obama had CHOICES. He and his staff CHOSE Barnard. Let’s put all of this political convenience crap to bed.
@barnardenthusiast hey guys i really want people to stop hating on barnard. i just looked it up online, and their admission rates for males is like so low. one of the lowest in the country. if that doesn’t say exclusive institution i don’t know what does
@......... …well that still doesn’t excuse her comments, nor does it justify the way this school’s administration regards its students. Sure, we could “rise above” it, but administration disconnect is a problem that needs to be addressed. The spirit of your argument, taken back 50 years, is that the university would have been justified in building their gym in morningside park, that they could have segregated students, that they could have been even less responsive to their students and even more disunited as an institution. As long as the blame is on the students to “rise above” poor organizational structure and the injustice that this brings, there will never be any change or progress. Are you saying that you enjoy having your words dismissed by a distant president and your interactions with Barnard students influenced by a fractured bureaucracy? I’ll take responsibility where responsibility is due, but I’ll also blame where blame is due, and maybe then we can truly Progress
@Anonymous Thank god I went to Barnard, because if I were a Columbia student or grad reading this I would be ashamed to associate myself with you lot. Stop being so pathetic and striving, it’s really very unbecoming. This is the kind of pathetic shit kids say when they know the best thing they will ever have to say for themselves is that they got into an Ivy League school. Instead of spewing ridiculous vitriol at people who really don’t care, why don’t you actually study and affirm that place you “earned”?
@Take a stand! Let our presidents know that we do not condone hatred. Sign: http://www.change.org/petitions/barnard-college-and-columbia-university-stand-in-solidarity-with-the-women-of-barnard-and-columbia-against-misogyny
@Always love if you’re sick of the hate, join the group “I love bold, beautiful women on both sides of broadway” and tell people what you love about this community
@BCstudent Out of curiosity, why don’t the Columbia students who resent sharing “their” facilities ever get worked up about sharing with JTS or GS? They also use them. And seriously, we’re all paying for them.
@Anonymous Um, GS is one of the divisions of the University – CC, Engineering, GS
@Anonymous http://jezebel.com/5890888/barnard-columbia-at-war-over-obama-feminazis-and-cum-dumpsters?utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_twitter&utm_source=jezebel_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
@Anonymous It’s not Bwog that is “taking down Columbia several notches”. It’s (hopefully) a very vocal minority in the student body that is. We should be ashamed of ourselves.
Can’t believe the other thread has 700 comments. Don’t y’all have midterms to study for?
@Anonymous Sorry, this was a reply to CCalum.
@BC '11 It’s okay, CC ’12, Obama didn’t speak at my graduation either.
@Anonymous http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ozp6No4W8
@Anonymous 3-2 Engineering Program anyone?
Requirements:
1) 3.0 from long-ass list of affiliated universities
2) Have money
3) Not need financial aid
4) Be able to pay tuition
5) Pay for off-campus housing
6) Breathe
Cheapening a Columbia degree and picking on Barnard eh?
@Good point. I’ve heard of the program. If I’m not mistaken, anyone who wants to be an engineering undergraduate at Columbia can, if they know about this program, apply to it at the appropriate time and via the necessary procedures. Granted, there is probably some effort to attract prospective students of underserved and underrepresented populations. But admittance is not only open to people of a particular demographic category, right?
@Anonymous http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/nyregion/with-obama-to-speak-at-barnard-strong-emotions-at-columbia.html
I read through this article and thought my gosh, Deborah Spar either doesn’t think before she speaks or has a total lack of concern for the impact of her words. It may be both.
“Debora L. Spar, the president of Barnard, said the relationship with Columbia was
complicated and at times tense, but she dismissed the online commentary as what “probably is 19-year-olds writing at 4:30 in the morning.”
The president of Barnard making an ageist dismissal of the university’s students? Did I
really just read that? It is beyond my understanding how or why the president of a
college, with students ages 18-22, would possibly say that. Why choose to denigrate the opinions of your students based on their ages? How do you think that would make them feel? Perhaps she doesn’t care.
“I joke that I’m bringing the Virgin Mary in 2014,” Ms. Spar said, adding that with the
announcement of Mr. Obama, “I’ve become really, really popular all of a sudden; I’ve
gotten ticket requests from Korea, China and India.”
Wait a minute, you “joke” that you’re bringing the Virgin Mary to campus? You’re
inserting a religious figure into an action that you see as a joke and releasing that
joke to the New York Times? What are you thinking?
Ageist dismissals and religious jokes are immature behavior in my opinion, and I would personally dismiss someone who performed both within the same New York Times article. I would have trouble taking them seriously regardless of their age. But that’s just me.
@BARNARD Stop reacting to this ignorance! Refuse to address the “haters.” Everyday delivers a new argument about who deserves a CU degree. It can be BC one day, SEAS the next day, and GS another day. Some CC students will not be happy until all other undergraduate schools are completely separate. There is NOTHING to gain from arguing with them.
I take issue with the administrations of both schools. They need to appropriately define this relationship to students entering the CU community.
@Ah, so naive There are so many things wrong with this.
@Anonymous I feel like saying that giving Barnard students a CU degree (to which they are entitled) cheapens a CC degree, smacks of the same logic which argues that allowing gay marriage cheapens heterosexual marriage. This is going to get eviscerated, but whatever.
@Anonymous Saying that Barnard students are entitled to a Columbia diploma is the most ridiculous claim to emerge from this discussion. If they wanted a Columbia diploma, they should have gone to Columbia. Columbia is affiliated with other places (ex. Julliard, etc) that doesn’t mean I get a Julliard diploma after graduating.
@Anonymous But what about it is ridiculous? It’s just factual. They get a Columbia University degree. It’s not even a claim? You’re logic doesn’t have any bearing on this particular situation.
the only thing that has happened is that you have been made aware of something that you didn’t know before. If the fact that Barnard students get a Columbia University degree bothers you, then YOU shouldn’t have gone to Columbia.
@Yes. By that logic, if anything about this country bothers you, then you should just leave– especially if you were born elsewhere and chose to come here. YOU, to repeat, shouldn’t have come to America. More generally, if anything in life bothers you, just shut up and hide under a rock or pick up and go somewhere else– do anything but articulate your point of view and bring reason to places where it is lacking.
@Anonymous I think I speak for most Barnard students (or at least graduates) when I say we really don’t care that it says Columbia University on the degree. In the grand scheme of things a diploma means nearly nothing–no one ever asks to look at your diploma–and I would never apply to a job or graduate program saying I went to Columbia, so what does it matter?
I guess I just don’t get what this stink is all about. If you’re smart you’ll find that college isn’t about a name, it’s about what you actually LEARN. I hope you all do figure this out, because your time at Columbia, Barnard, or wherever you are will be much better.
@Future CC'16 I think that if alot of perspective students that were planning to apply to Barnard OR Columbia knew about this…. THEY WOULD NOT APPLY and the acceptance rate for BOTH SCHOOLS WOULD GO DOWN.
To be honest, if I knew all this tension existed I probably wouldn’t have applied. And not because of the fact that Barnard is even affiliated with Columbia, but because of the fact that there is so much tension over the matter! As a future CC student, ever since I stumbled upon this issue, I haven’t been able to stop reading the comments from BOTH SIDES.
Honestly, as a perspective student looking from the outside in who has done research on both sides…here is what I think.
1. Classes at Barnard and Columbia are both challenging and easy in their own respects! Barnard students are not any less intelligent than Columbia students, and to think that they are automatically makes anyone an asshole.
2. I can understand Barnard’s side. It’s not fair that students from Columbia are unnecessarily hurtful and condescending for no reason. Barnard students did not ASK to be affiliated with Columbia, but since they are don’t give them a hard time. They have a right to be proud and thankful for whatever resources the relationship offers them.
3. I can also understand Columbia’a side. It is not fair to alot of CU students that Barnard mostly benefits from the relationship between the two schools. Columbia does not get anything whatsoever. So there is a little jealousy over the fact that they feel that Barnard gets the best of BOTH worlds. It is also worth mentioning that alot of Columbia students may wish that administration paid more attention to their wants and needs, like some of the administration at Barnard. And as for the amount of Barnard students that go around saying they go to Columbia, IGNORE IT. It is not hurting you until you are competing with a job for them. It’s not like anyone can really tell the difference anyway. Barnard girls are not these incredibly stupid bimbos, they are smart intelligent women. I’m sure its annoying yes, but them going around saying it does not make Columbia a lesser school. BUT what does it hateful, condescending comments. Just articulate your grievances a little better.
In my honest opinion. There is reason for resentment on both sides. I think that Barnard is a GREAT school, but I do believe that they should become independent of Columbia. My reason is because… Since Barnard is a great school it does not need Columbia to appear more prestigious, barnard would lose many of its unique aspects and traditions if it merged with columbia, some students may apply to barnard as a back up to columbia and those students do not DERSERVE to grace the halls of Barnard, and last…Barnard would not have to deal with snobbish, arrogant kids from Columbia. SOMETHING must be done…because this right here…is not working. I propose that either this is done, or the degrees that Barnard students get be from Barnard ONLY. Because I think the relationship with Columbia has really become a bit patronizing. Barnard does not need Columbia to make their degrees worth something. That’s bullshit. All the other Ivy league “sister schools” have either merged with the university or decided to be independent of it.
As for me, as a future freshman…. when I go to Columbia this fall… I am going to make it a point not to get swallowed up in all of this BS!!! I have been exposed to this can of worms…and do not wish to add to it any longer. I’m going to go to school, make plenty of Barnard and CU friends, get my degree (which IS NOT devalued because of Barnard), and move on with my life. There’s no use in being so wrapped up in this. If the relationship affiliation doesn’t change anytime soon…then make it a point to CHANGE YOURSELF.
Sorry for the rant…I know none of you probably value the opinion of a high school student anyway…but that’s just my two cents. I’m going back to Calculus now.
@tl;dr I stopped reading as soon as you said less people applying would lower the acceptance rate.
@Future CC'16 I was typing pretty fast when I wrote this so I made a few mistakes, but I am sure that you and everyone else can understand exactly what I was trying to say :) But if it makes you happy, less people will apply to both Barnard and Columbia, which will in turn increase the acceptance rates.
@SEAS '13 Speaking for myself, I don’t see or feel this tension at school; it appears to be mostly on bwog. You have good points, but I do hope that you’ll see that the Columbia community is not actually like how bwog comments may depict things.
@Future CC'16 That’s good. I really did hope that only a small percent of students actually felt this way. I figured that there must be some logical, down-to-earth people there. Thanks.
@CC 2011 Dogggggggggg,
You’re getting way too worked up about this. This is people venting on teh internetz lolz roflz. In real live, we get to date both Barnard and Columbia girls and the world keeps on spinning.
@CC 2011 ***real life
shit
@Clarity, CC12 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/nyregion/with-obama-to-speak-at-barnard-strong-emotions-at-columbia.html
I read through this article and thought my gosh, Deborah Spar either doesn’t think before she speaks or has a total lack of concern for the impact of her words. It may be both.
“Debora L. Spar, the president of Barnard, said the relationship with Columbia was
complicated and at times tense, but she dismissed the online commentary as what “probably is 19-year-olds writing at 4:30 in the morning.”
The president of Barnard making an ageist dismissal of the university’s students? Did I
really just read that? It is beyond my understanding how or why the president of a
college, with students ages 18-22, would possibly say that. Why choose to denigrate the opinions of your students based on their ages? How do you think that would make them feel? Perhaps she doesn’t care.
“I joke that I’m bringing the Virgin Mary in 2014,” Ms. Spar said, adding that with the
announcement of Mr. Obama, “I’ve become really, really popular all of a sudden; I’ve
gotten ticket requests from Korea, China and India.”
Wait a minute, you “joke” that you’re bringing the Virgin Mary to campus? You’re
inserting a religious figure into an action that you see as a joke and releasing that
joke to the New York Times? What are you thinking?
Ageist dismissals and religious jokes are immature behavior in my opinion, and I would personally dismiss someone who performed both within the same New York Times article. I would have trouble taking them seriously regardless of their age. But that’s just me.
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@alum i just don’t understand how anyone can legitimately be upset about this. get the fuck over yourselves.
@CC'12 This is embarrassing. All of this.
@Barnard? Everyone check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt3poeXHOY8
Also, Chill…I am not pissed at Barnard students, im pissed at Obama for going there and not speaking for Columbia!
@Anonymous Administrators disparaging students? Guys, I think this definitely shows that Barnard is part of Columbia umbrella.
Also, for all the people talking about cheapening your degree, you have no idea how many cash cow graduate students columbia enrolls. Talk about spreading your legs…and for money! Roar lion roar!
@Dr. Dre on Differences What’s the difference between me and you?
You talk a good one – but you don’t do what you supposed to do
I act on what I feel and never deal wit emotions
I’m used to livin big dog style and straight coastin
@anon “Some commenters wrote that Barnard classes are easier and that their own diplomas are devalued by the fact that Barnard’s also say ‘Columbia.’ Barnard’s defenders refuted such claims, arguing that college ranking systems underrate their school because they do not take into account the resources available through Columbia.”
Not to create more rivalry, but…I hope CC kids aren’t the ones saying THEIR classes are harder than Barnard’s. Keeping a high GPA in CC is not difficult…You want hard classes? Try being an engineer.
@Anonymous Whoa whoa whoa. While we can all acknowledge that SEAS has more math, I for one think that mathematics is a skill just like oration, charisma, and language aptitude.
Writing a 10-15 hour essay twice every semester is a challenging task, one that SEAS students obviously wouldn’t be able to do. However, mathematics and problem sets don’t require creative flair. Even if engineering classes require more hours and are graded less leniently, it’s probably due to the difference in the quality of student, as evidenced by the 7% acceptance rate vs double that of SEAS (hence they’re half as smart)
@Anonymous I like your sense of humor sir (or madam or whatever gender neutral appellation you prefer)
Also amusing: by that metric, a university that doesn’t exist and thus has a 0% acceptance rate, would represent a student population that is an infinite times more smart.
@Anonymous >10-15 hour essay twice a semester
LOL try 10-15 hour problem sets twice a week.
@Anonymous SEAS acceptance rate isn’t double that of CC, it’s 9.9%. obv their are CC majors that are challenging in their own way but succeeding in SEAS requires a lot more than pure skill. It requires a commitment somewhere between 40-60 hours every week for just completing problem sets (which even the help room may not know how to solve, happened many times in my case), a ridiculously low average in some classes where almost everyone fails, impersonal large classes and the fortitude to weather through the battering your confidence will take as a result of getting the lowest gpa (despite entering with the highest SAT/gpa scores) of all the undergraduate colleges at Columbia.
@Anonymous i forgot to add that SEAS kids take more classes on average than everyone else, including some that require us to write ‘a 10-15 hour essay twice every semester’. Columbia engineers, unlike their counterparts at other universities, can also write very well.
@SEAS “No creative flair”?
You’ve obviously never spent 5 hours coming up with a creative and inventive solution for a physics problem that your professor can decide is wrong and give you no credit for.
@Anonymous Yeah, but you knew what engineering was all about before you enrolled so there’s no point in crying over spilled milk. Students say they didn’t know how hard it would be. (that’s a lame excuse engineers)
As a senior in HS, you should already know how to:
1) Learn in cold and impersonal environments where, just like a frat party, silence is acquiescence
2) Be taught by teachers who themselves should enroll in ESL
3) Learn courses 2-3 times as difficult as AP Physics C
4) Take a course that’s 80% full of graduate students from China
Guys, give me a fucking break, don’t tell me you didn’t experience this in HS. I did and I knew I didn’t want to be an engineer so I don’t want to hear your “Whaaa whaa” anymore.
Also, if you don’t understand “1 by Land, 2 by SEAS”, please reread for context and sarcasm.
@concerned Misguided ignorant Übermench!
@CCalum Thank you BWOG for taking Columbia down weveral notches. Are you all happy at BWOG that you have provided an anonymous and unedited forum for Columbia students to make fools of themselves!
BWOG needs to stop this! BWOG staff take responsibility…or do you enjoy ruining your own school and the value of your degrees.
@Contact U “It’s Bwog, not BWOG.”
@Anonymous Exactly
@yesyes I really hope incoming freshmen do not ever read this thread or the previous one. ha. now i get how stupid (only not as much) they must have felt when their comments got posted on Bwog!
@Anonymous Wait–seriously? We get NYT coverage about how people are posting hateful comments on Bwog and how it’s reflecting poorly on the University…and people respond by posting even MORE hateful comments? Everyone just needs to grow up and move on.
@Anon Do you think columbia will make a social media policy because of this mess. Those policies really suck. I’ve seen this mess and sspeakergate mess posted on twitter if I was Columbia’s PR guy I would do it.
@Because Prezbo’s really the type to clamp down on free speech, right?
@franny Narrator: The children performed BC’s first play on the night of her 123rd birthday. They had agreed to invite DSpar to the party.
CC: What’d you think, DSpar?
DSpar: Didn’t seem believable to me.
CC: Well, did you at least think the characters were well developed?
DSpar: What characters? There’s a bunch of little kids dressed up in animal costumes.
BC: Good night, everyone.
DSpar: Well, sweetie, don’t get mad at me. That’s just one woman’s opinion!
Narrator: She had not been invited to any of their parties since.
@Campus Arrest Anyone else see the campus arrest? I know I’m nosy but I really want to know what happened…..
@4:50am I’m tired…and it’s past 4:30am, which will from now on be known as Spar time.
@Anonymous Not that they did anything more than their duty in speaking respectfully about all schools involved, but can we take a moment to acknowledge Amanda, Preeya and Will for making us look better than the events in question have?
@Clarity CC'12 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/nyregion/with-obama-to-speak-at-barnard-strong-emotions-at-columbia.html
I read through this article and thought my gosh, Deborah Spar either doesn’t think before she speaks or has a total lack of concern for the impact of her words. It may be both.
“Debora L. Spar, the president of Barnard, said the relationship with Columbia was complicated and at times tense, but she dismissed the online commentary as what “probably is 19-year-olds writing at 4:30 in the morning.”
The president of Barnard making an ageist dismissal of the university’s students? Did I really just read that? It is beyond my understanding how or why the president of a college, with students ages 18-22, would possibly say that. Why choose to denigate the opinions of your students based on their ages? How do you think that would make them feel? Perhaps she doesn’t care.
“I joke that I’m bringing the Virgin Mary in 2014,” Ms. Spar said, adding that with the announcement of Mr. Obama, “I’ve become really, really popular all of a sudden; I’ve gotten ticket requests from Korea, China and India.”
Wait a minute, you “joke” that you’re bringing the Virgin Mary to campus? You’re inserting a religious figure into an action that you see as a joke and releasing that joke to the New York Times? What are you thinking?
Ageist dismissals and religious jokes are striking examples of immature behavior in my opinion, and I would personally dismiss someone who performed both within the same New York Times article. But that’s just me.
@Anonymous Trans-Broadway water gun battle, anyone? Winner takes Obama.
@Secret Service investigating in 3, 2, 1…
@CC'14 I propose that we call these series of events the “The Columbia-Barnard Affiliation and Commencement War of 2012” or “The Great ShitShow of 2012” for short. We must commit what has happened these past few to Columbia’s and Barnard’s history (CU Wiki page anyone?). So that future Columbians and Barnardians will know the great battles that were fought on the fora of Bwog and Spec. Hopefully, they can learn from our successes and failures.
@Welll I like to think about what would have happened if people had bothered to quell their entitled indignation for a hot sec and realize that although Obama’s triumphant return to Columbia would have been utterly kick-ass, the fact he’s speaking here at all is such an amazing thing. I get the vitriol, to a certain extent, and I get the negative reaction to DSpar and Prezbo’s comments… but I think that had either of them responded to this in more decisively it would have emphasized the fact that this Bwog hate-fest makes us look like ROYAL SHITHEADS instead of the generally decent people that I (hope) comprise the Columbia student body.
It was damage control, pretty decent damage control at that imho.
@C'mon Please guys…just stop. Stop being so malicious to one another. I never realized there was so much hate between us. What do you guys gain from hating on Barnard students? Think what you want about how terrible Barnard students are but keep it to yourself. Does it not matter that you are hurting a group of students/people just like you? Seriously, what do you gain?
@Anonymous My parents have worked really hard and made many sacrifices to be able to afford sending me to Columbia. This is on top of countless hours and dollars spent to make sure that I had access to top notch education in high school so I could even be a reasonable candidate. I know that one of many reasons (many not only) that made it worth it for them when I got in and came here was the idea of prestige that is associated with the Columbia name.
Why do I care? Well, because I know how hard some of us have worked to get here, and how much it means to the communities we come from. Then seeing Barnard tarred with the same brush as CC, SEAS or GS is hurtful and makes me wonder if my parents could have just tried less hard to get me here and sent me to Barnard instead. As has been exhaustively pointed out, in terms of access to resources, there’s no difference…
I don’t need to clarify the difference between Barnard and Columbia to make myself feel smarter or to make them feel worse. But I do need to justify to myself and my parents that a difference exists and that it was worth them paying more and me compromising my health to work harder.
Now, if you’ll claim that an average CU student (which is all you know about me) couldn’t get in to Barnard, then I guess my argument is invalid. Unfortunately, you’d be wrong.
@BC '15 You made some good points, especially concerning the sacrifice you made to get where you are. I’m sure you worked very hard, and continue to now. I don’t doubt that your parents made sacrifices. However, to say that those of us at Barnard did not make sacrifices is hurtful. Barnard, while slightly less expensive than Columbia, has a smaller endowment, which means that many of us are not receiving all the financial aid we need, and many women here are making sacrifices to attend. All the women here worked hard to get in. Everyone at this University (CC, BC, SEAS, GS, JTS, SIPA, the Law School, the other graduate schools) made sacrifices and worked hard to go to this university. You cannot limit sacrifice and hard work to CC, SEAS and GS.
@Same anonymous I’m not disparaging anyone’s sacrifices by pointing out my family’s. It’s not exclusive, guys.
Another commenter said, “it’s a self-selecting applicant pool, in that only women who want to go to a single-sex school in NYC apply.” Okay! Great! I’m happy that Barnard women who wanted that environment can enjoy it, but I don’t see why that pool has to be represented or augmented by the Columbia University level. As you said, Barnard is a great college in its own right. So why doesn’t it assert itself and make a split?
Honestly, I’ve never heard a good answer to that specific question. Most people address “Why Barnard is just as good” etc. etc. The question was never about that for a lot of us in CC/SEAS/GS. The question was, “Hey Barnard girls, we’re happy to have you as our neighbors! But, but as we all know, you’re all strong INDEPENDENT women. So why is Barnard occasionally also CU?”
Anti-Barnard people might be misogynists, true. But I think most people are not anti-Barnard so much as they are anti-burueacracy-that-makes-Barnard-part-of-CU, unnecessarily. If anything, that’s feminist in that it suggests a prestigious women’s college doesn’t need the name of a neighboring Ivy League university to be great
@Student Seriously, just do your work and stop worrying about it.
@Anonymous I’ve never comment on Bwog before, but I had to for this comment.
Are you five? Seriously? Do you really think Barnard students didn’t work hard to get into Barnard? Or that perhaps Barnard students wanted to go to a small liberal arts school and (gasp!) NOT take the core? As a student who transferred to Barnard, I had no interest in going to Columbia because the Core didn’t interest me, whereas Barnard’s Gen Ed requirements are extremely flexible.
In regards to Barnard being easier to get into: it’s a self-selecting applicant pool, in that only women who want to go to a single-sex school in NYC apply. I don’t really know how to make this clearer. Lots of people don’t apply to Barnard because they don’t want to go to an all-women’s college. Also, Barnard has a lot of prestige in its’ own right. I love going to one of the few all-women’s colleges in the US and going to a school that had a long history of fighting for women’s education and equality. Believe it or not, but that means far more to me than the “prestige” of the name Columbia. I’m sorry if that is a “hurtful” statement for you.
I’m just sorry for your parents, that you can’t appreciate their hard work to send you to a great university and be grateful for the sacrifices they made for you.
@Anonymous See…this is the problem right here. You think you are the only one who works hard and sacrificed to go to school? And simply leaving all that aside, can’t this just remain between you and your parents? It seems wrong for you to try to justify this fact to yourself and your parents by putting an entire community down. Unless every single student in Barnard has harmed you personally in some way, you shouldn’t feed your own pride by putting others down.
@one for the money To Anonymous: “My parents spent countless hours and dollars spent to make sure that I had access to top notch education in high school so I could even be a reasonable candidate.” Could you just clarify what that means? Did your parents send you to private school? Did you participate in expensive extra-curriculars that made you stand out on your college applications? How many years of SAT prep did you get (if any)? How much money did your parents have to spend for you to become a “reasonable candidate”?
You imply the money your parents spent on you in high school helped you get into Columbia, and that they are kind enough to pay for your education now. Good for you.
I went to public school, did extra-curriculars that didn’t cost me money, and prepared for the SATs by myself. Just because my parents didn’t spend money on these things doesn’t mean they tried less. They encouraged me, but didn’t pressure me. *I* wanted to do well. Now that I’m in college, my parents are working to help me pay MY tuition. My parents can be proud of me, and I’m thankful that I was raised in a household that expected me to go to college. But getting into college was MY accomplishment, not my parents’.
If you give your parents so much credit for getting you into school, don’t blame Barnard’s existence for anything. Blame your poor parents for not trying hard enough to get you into a better university without this highly pressing issue that hurts you so much (I hope for their sake you don’t let it compromise your health).
Take the Core, walk into Columbia dorms without having to get signed in, put CU or whatever you like on your resume and get over it.
@Same anonymous First of all, I’m not blaming Barnard’s existence so much as I’m suggesting that its position to Columbia be redefined. I would be perfectly content (and think it is great) to have Barnard as yet another great college in NYC. For example, if NYU were also right down the street, I would have no problem with that. It’s great that Barnard women are proud to go to Barnard, they should be!
But why do they have to be part of Columbia anymore? Either Barnard should be completely integrated into Columbia, (except for the fact that Barnard is all-women it’s not unique in any other way which makes it redundant for Columbia unlike CC, SEAS or GS which have specific differences), or they should completely disassociate and be their own college with everything separate. Either way, I would have no issues with it.
As for what my parents did, yes, they spent money on better prep and things like that. Obviously, getting into Columbia (or not, if I hadn’t) is my accomplishment or failure but the goal of getting me into a good school was a family goal. It was the difference between me going to a state school for free and my family living more comfortably or trying to reach for more for me and my siblings. I would never say that other people haven’t made sacrifices, but by choice or by force, they went to Columbia or Barnard, whatever the case may be and they have to live with it.
As for the “Get over it”, it is possible to have opinions on something without letting it define your life and want to share those opinions. I just believe that people should be acknowledged and recognized for 100.00% of what they have done in life, but not even a little more.
@one for the money (again) Thanks for your response.
I agree that there should be a defined (not just clearer, but actually defined) relationship between the two schools. Honestly, I might be crucified for being a Barnard student and saying this, but perhaps merging the two schools wouldn’t be the worst thing. This is just one student’s opinion. I don’t think, however, that having an all-women’s college under the CU umbrella would be redundant. The 9 Ways of Knowing is, as a personal example, more relevant to my education than the Core would be. It’s something to think about, and going back to the issue at hand, should not just be dismissed by our presidents.
@Anonymous See, there is a debate to be had here that’s not just “19-year-olds writing at 4:30 in the morning”. But the whole thing is somehow so politically (Columbically?) incorrect, that an actual mature discussion never has a chance to happen.
Also,
CC = non-engineering majors
SEAS = engineering/applied science majors
GS = the former for non-traditional students (also, why doesn’t GS offer SEAS majors? People aren’t allowed to be engineers later in life?)
Barnard = …women?…
In that sense, Barnard IS redundant for Columbia, but it has many great things that would be lost if it was just merged into Columbia. I actually think the reverse is ideal, where it separates completely to become an independent institution allows students to enjoy a different student life and education than is offered here at Columbia.
PS. I think my captcha looks like Java code. Begone, begone evil specter of midterms!
@Student But what would this even achieve in real terms? Short of cutting Barnard students out of Columbia classes, and denying Columbia students access to Barnard classes and departments (there are plenty of Columbia students in theater at Barnard for example). Do you want to just ban Barnard students from extra-curriculars? Two of the groups I’m in and love (at COLUMBIA) have Barnard presidents, and they’re amazing. Why would you want to flatten our community and exclude more people than necessary?
Open hearts open minds people. We’re here to learn, what a privilege.
@idk about you, Bwog but this is my favorite comment
@FYI You sound like a pretentious asshole, congratz
@Anonymous I think your comment is incredibly well put. Thank you for sharing that with us, as a CC student myself, I could not agree more. The sacrifices I made, financially, physically, and mentally, make me wonder the same thing. That’s not to say that Barnard girls did not make similar sacrifices to go there, but certainly there must be a difference in the type of sacrifices being made given the respective different calibers of Columbia and Barnard.
@Do your research Barnard certainly “gets more” out of the relationship in some respects (though one might argue that many of the amazing resources provided to all schools come from the graduate programs, which certainly aren’t involved in this debate). However, Columbia benefits quite a bit from the partnership as well–additional space, an extra library, many professors which teach both Barnard and Columbia courses, and some departments almost completely hosted at Barnard (e.g. theater, dance, and architecture). Other departments host many of the intro courses all students–Barnard and Columbia–in a major need to graduate, like Intro Art History (plus many contemporary art surveys). The school boasts plenty of its own luminaries in the academic world that all students are lucky to have access to.
I never, in my time at Barnard, met a student there who “pretended to go to Columbia,” or who actually applied there. Most do not apply to Barnard BECAUSE of Columbia–they apply to Barnard because it is a great LAC in NYC with some really awesome departments and a good advising system. That’s certainly why I chose to apply/attend. Yes, Columbia’s resources are great, and make Barnard an even better place to be. But so do plenty of other things–NY Public Library, access to Bobst at NYU.
I honestly do not understand the Columbia butthurt. If you hate Barnard so much then why did you go to Columbia? You knew Barnard was an affiliate. Don’t put down others to prove to yourself how hard you worked (or, as you say, how much money you paid to prepare to get in to a top tier school). We all work hard, we’re all smart. All students at Barnard, for instance, have to write a thesis (not a Columbia requirement); it’s not easy work.
I know I am confident enough in my abilities and in how hard I worked to accomplish what I have that I don’t need to insult others out of insecurity. I hope you can find that in yourself before you graduate.
@Sigh I don’t think DSpar was dismissing everybody’s opinions but was just referring to the immature comments posted only to incite anger.
Example above: “BARNARD LOL IF I EVER NEED TO TAKE A CLASS IN HOW TO MAKE SANDWICHES I’LL BE SURE TO REMEMBER YOUR INSTITUTION EXISTS.”
Quit trollin’ and study for your midterms, people.
@Anonymous Ageist scum like DSpar have no business working with students. In 1968 Columbia administrators were rightfully lambasted for saying something similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Strawberry_Statement
@Anonymous This is from the other NY times article.
“Barnard is an independent liberal arts college for women; it is one of the four undergraduate schools of Columbia and enrolls about 2,400 students.”
@Anonymous when are you all seriously going to shut up?
@rawr a la Eddie Murphy “Delirious”, dspar?
@Anonymous OH MY GOD WHEN WILL THE BUTTHURT STOP!?!?!?!?
@Anonymous Love how they post Barnard vs. Columbia statistics in the article on the left-hand panel:
“ADMITTANCE
In 2011, of 29,279 people who applied, 6 percent were accepted at Columbia. Of the 4,618 people who applied, Barnard admitted 27.8 percent.”
@I'm sure that you had a lovely time jerking off to those stats.
@Anonymous The prevalence of shit like this on Bwog is a testament to the hypocrisy of the BC students calling for media attention to CC’s supposed explosion of misogyny. Wow, who woulda guessed? Barnard is actually just as bitter and insecure as CC ever was!
@Anonymous those statistics aren’t even correct. 34,929 applied in 2011, acceptance rate was 6.9%
@Anon Those are combined numbers. The Times was referring to CC only, not SEAS. http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/classprofile
@Anonymous oh. that’s like upenn posting only wharton numbers or Harvard only reporting its political science admits. misrepresentation, but not exactly new from NYT…
@Anonymous Not at all. Wharton isn’t the main undergraduate institution of UPenn
(or even an undergrad) and CC IS the main undergrad college of CU. The Times reported that statistic in the most honest way possible, more honest than combining CC and SEAS.
@Anonymous Let’s get this shit started.
BARNARD LOL IF I EVER NEED TO TAKE A CLASS IN HOW TO MAKE SANDWICHES I’LL BE SURE TO REMEMBER YOUR INSTITUTION EXISTS.
inb4 700 replies
@CC '13 You are to CU students what Sarah Palin is to Republicans. You make us (CU) look really stupid/arrogant/pathetic, and you delegitimize our actual concerns. Stop trying to start shit.
@Anonymous yo seriously, you got that right.
I have seen, with my own eyes, numerous cases where Barnards say they are Columbia outside of school, and now, all those girls are saying how they are proud to be Barnards.
Makes me wanna regret coming to Columbia.
After all, Barnard has easier classes, still gets all Columbia’s good things (actually everything) + their own good things (I heard from my friend that Barnard labs are like crazy nice), nicer to students, gets to say Barnard or Columbia depending on the circumstances, AND gets Obama.
wow….
@"Makes me wanna regret coming to Columbia. do you even go here? this post is atrociously structured. seriously, you sound like a middle schooler.
@Anonymous Barnard girls, take note. You are so damn adamant about the fact that Barnard is an undergraduate school under the Columbia University umbrella. NO. IT. IS. NOT. The THREE undergraduate schools that make up Columbia University are Columbia College, SEAS, and GS. YOU GUYS ARE AN AFFILIATE. NOT A COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY UNDERGRADUATE SCHOOL GET OVER IT. And if you don’t believe me, then at least believe the New York Times, the paper of record:
“Mr. Obama went first to Occidental College in Los Angeles, and then transferred after two years to Columbia College, where he graduated in 1983. The university also has two other undergraduate colleges — the school of general studies, which primarily serves older students, and the school of applied sciences and engineering, each of which holds its own commencement.”
@ugh Not this horseshit again. At this point I don’t even care what anyone has to say anymore. Shut the fuck up. Please.
@Anonymous This is actually true, though. Columbia’s three official undergraduate institutions are CC, SEAS and GS. Barnard College is affiliated to Columbia, just like List College (JTS’s undergraduate institution) is.
@Anonymous (Though it is indeed stupid to point that out with a condesceding tone and assume it changes anything)
@Anonymous condescending*
@anon If that is indeed true, then start a fucking petition or something to make the admins clarify the relationship! This comment has been made 382948324x times before and it is neither helpful nor original. Jesus, you guys are so fucking full of yourselves.
@For Christ's sake Please don’t use the words “Jesus” and “f’ing” in the same sentence during Lent
@Sister Mary Clearwater AMEN
@Anonymous Except that Barnard student’s earn Columbia degrees, so it is slightly different.
@If the NYT is the paper of record... …how do you feel about it changing SEAS’s name to SASE? (I always thought that stood for stamped self-addressed envelope, but I guess I’m showing my age…)
@Anonymous yo bwog delete this comment, this dude is tryna start shit.
@Anonymous “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”
@Anonymous I rarely look at BWOG or The Spectator, I find it a waste of time. I heard from a friend today about the comments from Monday’s post. The majority are disgusting, I don’t understand. Yes, the jealousy I get, but the hate? I seriously think that everyone who posted something negative needs a vacation really, really bad. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
@Anonymous glad you think your campus community is a waste of time!
@Anonymous if bwog comments are where you find your strongest sense of community at this school, i think you’ve found your problem right there.
@Anonymous I don’t think either of their responses are okay. One president said the bickering was because of some over-tired teens and the other said it was “understandable.” Yes, anyone would be disappointed to not have Obama at commencement, but to have a slight implication that some of the vehement attacks were “understandable” is NOT okay on any level. In regards to DSpar’s comment, it’s true its college students ranting because yes we are all stressed out right now and this situation aggravated that, but it is also not right to dismiss our thoughts and feelings.
This whole situation wasn’t okay to begin with, and these responses are far from acceptable.
@Well I guess when I see him use the word “understandable” here, I don’t see him as just letting the comments slide, just hinting that the hostility wasn’t arbitrary – there were some very real and emotionally poignant factors that could lead to directing frustration at one’s peers rather than the circumstance.
But I do think you’re right. He could have said it betterm he could have handled this better. Again, I don’t think he should have outright condemned the commenters – because it simplifies the public’s perception of the events. The fact that this could even be interpreted as approving, though, is definitely a problem.
So what would we have liked from Prezbo? Just a statement condemning the student body? Because I really don’t think even that would be sufficient, I feel as though any statement on his part would have to be either very thorough or direct & detached. Anything else seems to shallow, even reprimand.
@Aforementioned sleep deprived student *too shallow
@OBAMANARD in solidarity with the NARDIANS
@So happy that our top-notch administrators can offer such a mature, insightful perspective on things.
– CC ’12
@Not to tug on Prezzie's dick or anything but I think his comment was just the right amount of distanced. He neither condemned nor praised, but he did use the word “understandable”–because honestly, it is. The feelings have always existed within the community to some extent, and this particular incident exaggerated those emotions–and let’s be honest, they were pretty strong to begin with for some people. Prezbo’s comment prompted sympathy–which is exactly what most of that post’s comments were lacking.
He’s got authority. Often, when a voice of authority makes a statement, we accept that statement without fully considering its context. Not all of us, but a lot of us, a lot of people process without fully considering. Just imagine if Prezbo had condemned the hateful reactions of students in those comments: suddenly, the public has a negative impression of both the university and the student body. They don’t sympathize with the students at all, they don’t think about what motivated such charged responses from the students. They think about the hate, and they think poorly of the university/students for having such hate. Such a distanced statement provokes thought without “choosing the public’s opinion for them”, so to speak. Perhaps not Prezbo’s primary reasoning for responding as he did, but I don’t think it’s something we can overlook.
I have no such defense for DSpar.
@Anonymous no. just…no. those comments deserve to be condemned. i would have gained SO much more respect for prezbo had he condemned those vicious, hateful words. i have ZERO sympathy for anyone who writes such cruel, hurtful things.
@Anonymous Stop playing the victim card. I believe the shitstorm went something like this:
1) CU students responded to being snubbed by Obama
2) BC students responded with comments like “SUCK IT CC”
3) CU students called-out the students at BC for being inferior, self-loathing gloaters (their words, not mine)
4) BC students responded with equally harsh criticisms
The point I’m trying to make is this: If CU students are guilty of overreacting to the provocations of BC students, then BC students are just as guilty for provoking them.
@sorry But I call bullshit. From the very first comment on that thread, CC students made derisive ad hominem attacks on Barnard students, in regard to either its perceived quality or status, and before a handful of BC students even had time to express their ecstasy, yet ANOTHER argument about Barnard being a part of Columbia broke out. I didn’t even see any “SUCK IT COLUMBIA” comments until much further down-thread, after the threads had turned genuinely nasty. For being the college that gets constantly accused of being obsessively preoccupied with Columbia and being incredibly insecure, the “Barnard sucks!” comments are ALWAYS started by Columbia students. Always. Post after fucking post.
@Sorry, But do you even know what “ad hominem” means?
By definition, attacking an entire student body cannot be”ad hominem.”
Pointing out something along the lines of how using words incorrectly because you think adding foreign vocab to your language makes you sound smart actually makes you look a bit dumb, and then defacing your character so no one would ever take you seriously would be an “ad hominem” attack. Not that I’d do that, but you should be careful because someone might.
That’s some pro-bono advice vis-a-vis your comment.
@honey you’re going to need better rebuttals than trying to invalidate my entire argument by pointing out that I forgot to insert “members of the Barnard commmunity”.
@derp “3) CU students called-out the students at BC for being inferior, self-loathing gloaters (their words, not mine)
4) BC students responded with equally harsh criticisms”
you had me “inferior, self-loathing gloaters”. i should use that more often.
and what “equally harsh critisms”. our grades are too high, our acceptance is too low, and a our football team sucks?
@Anonymous High grades? Doesn’t CC have something like a 3.4 average GPA?
@oh and in conclusion, this is an exhaustively broached topic of conversation that clearly bothers CC much more than it bothers BC, so maybe y’all should start a petition or rally a call to action to stop Barnard from getting their diplomas signed from PresBo, or whatever is getting your panties in a twist. I’m all for it if it means getting CC students to shut the fuck up more frequently and leave us alone.
@it's PrezBo with a fucking ‘z.’
Do you even go here?
@Anonymous No, we go to Barnard.
@... Exactly.
@OH NOES Defeated with a pithy ringer! Oh wait, only I’ve never considered myself to go to Columbia, and once again, it’s idiots like you who can’t drop it.
@Obamanard? Well dayum. That’s definitely better than either Baracknard or Obarnard. Props where props are due, Bwog. And you didn’t even need a -gate!
@Disgruntled CC'14 I thought that as a college student, adults would treat my opinion with more respect than considering my words something a “19-year old [would write] at 4:30 in the morning.” Yes, a lot of the commentary on the Bwog post about Obama as Barnard’s commencement speaker is hateful and extremely distasteful, but that should not be associated with youngsters being troublemakers, so to speak. It’s people being people. People can be mean, and immature, no matter what age.
Columbia and Barnard students attend some of the most competitive schools in the nation. Dismissing our thoughts is like dismissing the importance of the institution somehow; if those who attend Columbia have insignificant opinions, what does that say about the significance of the university?
I don’t know how to articulate my thoughts right now exactly, but hopefully you understand what I’m getting at. If not, you can just chalk it up to the fact that I’m a 19 year old (21, but who’s counting?) writing at 4:30 in the morning (well, 1am, but whatever).
@dspar shut up, bitch.
@wow A perfect demonstration of the sexism the above user was talking about! Well done, sir.
@Anonymous Who said she’s a girl? Maybe you’re sexist for assuming it’s a girl. SMACKDOWNNNNNNNNNN
@rawr A perfect demonstration of how far up their own asses some people at these schools can be! Well done, most-likely-madam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvdcN4csakk
learn some humor
@rawr A perfect demonstration of how far up their own asses some people at these schools can be! Well done, most-likely-madam.
@Nah, man. I totally see what you’re getting at – when I read through the article, that quote gave me an uneasy feeling, too. Sure, some of those comments were likely the result of sleep deprivation and caffeine nerves, exacerbated by midterm stress, but to suppose that this crankiness was what motivated all or even most of those comments is both dismissive and insulting. To bring age into it? Reductive, negligent. Her response belittles the issues raised in that post’s comments, and unfortunately, her poor words are given weight by her position.
@alum '11 this is exactly why i will never donate a cent to columbia. i’ve seen this dismissiveness firsthand, by administrators who think they are better than us or that our concerns are trivial and not real. the online barnard-columbia riots while despicable were a natural result of the sectarian division between undergraduates fostered purely for bureaucratic purposes, another evidence of how the lives and sentiments of our students are completely at the whims of these people. if this is how we are actually viewed by people all the way on the top, then i suggest a rule be implemented that the president of barnard or columbia must have attended our school as an undergrad. if such a rule already exists for our commencement speakers, there is no need why it should not for our presidents.
@derp LOL Didn’t read
@Anonymous i don’t think dspar was actually trying to belittle cu students — i think what she was trying to say is that some of us acted out of character (i.e. like sleep-deprived 19 year-olds) by resorting to name-calling. she could’ve phrased it differently, but as the nyt article indicates, she has other (more legitimate) concerns at the moment (i.e. the well-being of her son). give her a break.
@OP Just to clarify, I wasn’t trying to belittle DSpar’s problems by taking her comment too seriously. I took her comment seriously because she is the President of Barnard College. I understand she has more important issues to deal with, but I believe that she can and should represent Barnard students (and CU students in general) in a better light despite dealing with personal stressors. I sympathize with her situation and I’m glad her son is well, but as a CC girl who has Barnard friends, and as a student at the University with which she is affiliated, I took offense at her comment. That’s all I was trying to say.
@Anonymous “She should represent Barnard students in a better light.”
Er, no offense, but I think that it’s the Columbia students who might want to be worried about this, considering the fact that our largest, most important national newspaper is covering the huge temper tantrum that a few of you decided to throw. That’s done much more to our “reputation” than anything Barnard’s president has said.
@CC Don’t worry, Barnard’s Bwog comment-fueled temper tantrum dwarfed ours.
@... dude, you guys acted like complete shitheads and she tried to excuse you for it, yet somehow that makes you upset? would you have preferred that she say what she (and pretty much every single outside observer) thinks about the pathetic shitshow that took place? do you really even understand how ridiculous it is that the shit-fit thrown by columbia college is grandiose enough to garner NEW YORK TIMES coverage? columbia college had a temper tantrum, of the worst flavor, on the motherfucking national stage…
look, if you want to turn this around and spin something positive out of it, it’s really rather easy. publicly denounce columbia’s fucked up culture of “you don’t deserve to be here”-ism… yeah, sure, the way things are structured around here (and even in society at large) basically make for an invitation to behave that way, but at the end of the day it’s your choice and your choice alone. are you going to let this place turn you into an insufferable piece of shit, or are you going to stand strong, say FUCK THAT, and choose to behave like a humble, yet intelligent human being seeking to maximize whatever opportunities you happen to come across to make the most of this life while supporting those around you in their pursuits of the same?
@Anonymous Some of the comments on the other article were pretty fucking stupid. I’d hope some of them were written by sleep-deprived 19 year-olds, because the idea that I’m sharing classes with people like is depressing.
@Ovid “[Barnard], you bitch! Must I tolerate you? You will / always be female / and [Barnard] to me. Perhaps you forget your original / sex / Do you ever recall what you did to deserve your / reward? Do you think / of the price which you paid to achieve this specious / [Columbia] body? / Look at the girl you were born and the shame that she / suffered. Then go, / return to your distaff and basket of wool. Go back to / your spinning, / and leave [Obama] to men!
Metamorphoses, I.