Does John McCain speak for you? Because he doesn’t speak for these guys.
After all, post-thesis seniors have to get worked up about something…
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Bwog Staff on
May 01, 2006 
99 Comments
Does John McCain speak for you? Because he doesn’t speak for these guys.
After all, post-thesis seniors have to get worked up about something…
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99 Comments
@democrats suck too Not necessarily. The Democrats have shown themselves to be an inept group of politicians as well. That’s part of the problem in this country: There is no true opposition party. Goddamit, we need some fucking political realignment, or some extroadinary politician that can move beyond the special interests!
@92 No one’s talked back to 92 because they know they’re living in a “self masturbatory liberal fantasy.” Well put. And I know a kid at Liberty – he might be dumb as a stone (well, he is), but he’s no Christian.
@J Train I think the only reason Columbia asked McCain to speak is because his daughter is a student here. I bet he made a huge monetary donation.
@do you really think... …that McCain paid to speak here? They were probably able to pay him less, but I doubt that he paid to speak here.
@congratulations? It’s a misunderstanding of “free speech” to say that an objection to McCain at our Class Day is an objection to “free speech”. In a free society, we actually have a duty to respond to public discourse, promote ideas in which we believe, and challenge those we don’t. McCain on campus would (or should) be itself be lightening rod for political debate about what he means for this country, and what a McCain presidency would mean for “Columbia’s” values. Having McCains as a ceremonial event that is billed as a celebration of the student body and Columbia’s ideals is insulting. This man has spent his political life working against many truths we hold to be self-evident here in our enlightened corner of the world. In fact, he has even explicitly voted for legislation (or said who would sign legislation) that restricts the rights of many students IN OUR GRADUATING CLASS.
If this isn’t a moment to stand up for what’s right, what is? Can anyone here really say that having this man advance his power and stature in the world by coming here is NOT political?
@this has been beaten to the ground. it’s free speech as long as it isn’t disruptive of mccain’s speech. Those who disagree w/him certainly have a right to react and demonstrate tactfully.
@well said thank you. he speaks, you speak, no one is disrupted, everyone emerges looking respectful. disagreement and dialogue out be civil- this is the ultimate import of our discussion. we know mccain will uphold his end of that bargain, the question is whether columbia students will. I’m fairly confident, given the responses here, that there is really nothing to worry about.
no one can “represent” every member of a student body as diverse as our own. let’s be thankful that columbia has chosen a speaker which will help to include our campus in a debate which will resonate beyond our gates, helping us to transition, on graduation day, from our debates and discussions here, to those of the broader world.
@ANYWAY those of you who are sympathetic to this issue, or who feel like we have a duty and a rigt to respond critically to some of mccain’s positions, head over to the website at http://www.mccainatcolumbia.com and make some comments. an arsenal of well written criticism of his policies (perhaps compiled and handed out during class day?) may be the most powerful tool we have.
@okay ok Morgan Sellers.. will do
@jmccain …and i’ll get away with it all because i’m a war hero.
@facebook group For all of you people who are with me that McCain does not speak for you I have made a facebook group that not only covers McCain but also future people:
http://columbia.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2203865664
@jmccain jerry, let’s go block hpv medication research legislation, the right for women to choose, gay marriage…
@the fact that mccain shares several or even more than several views w/fallwell doesn’t suddenly implicate him in the charge that he’s as nutty as fallwell. While i know some people on this campus may not believe this, abortion isn’t necesssarily as cut and dry as just a woman’s right to choose. There are serious ethical concerns which are legitimate.
Furthermore, there are also reasonable arguments for opposing views regarding gay marriage and opposing more discretionary spending for certain types of research that aren’t just derivate of a person being a homophobe or hating women (its really hard to honestly try to claim mccain is very much of either). For example, let’s say harry reid supports mcain feingold, is also pro life and also opposes drilling in anwr–does that make him equivalent to mccain and consequently fallwell? Somebody better warn teh dems.
@ttan To add to that, lots of Dems (including Hillary) voted for war in Iraq and do not call for immediate withdrawal. Does that make them as nutty and ideological as Cheney? Shit, someone warn the dems indeed.
@Green Party Who is saying likes Democrats?
@i'm assuming ttan assumes the majority of those opposed to mccain are democrats. it’s a reasonable assumption considering the percentage of dems vs green vs socialists etc on this campus.
@indeed dear whoever the hell you are,
you are a fascist. leave our women alone. leave our wilderness alone. go to hell, too.
@excellent job of presenting a reasoned rebuttal let’s indulge in the irony here:
i suggested that declaring certain issues are decided facts and then declaring that anyone who disagrees with you has deep and evil flaws in their character is very intellectually unfair and doesn’t promote debate because it tries to stigmatize a debator or a position as opposed to actually challenging the belief based upon its merit.
Your brilliant response: You don’t agree w/me so you’re a fascist. Leave women alone (becuase i obviously just want to put up property of signs on every female’s vulva). leave our wilderness alone (i’m not sure what i’ve said that would indicate i’m not particularly devoted to preserving the environment–though i do admit i have a longstanding grudge w/mother earth and chalk one up on teh board every time i help in furthering global warming or the extinction of another animal). and go to hell (classy)
so to sum up:
me- you should freely debate issues and not character so as to not reduce oneself to ad hominem attacks as opposed to engaging in a fruitful dialectic
you- you’re evil and becuase you don’t believe my unequivocal views. you’re a facist who should go to hell
do you even know what ‘fascist’ means?
@yep, i'm sure mccain=fallwell only for intellectualy idiotic and unhonest:
McCAIN: Well Alan, I’ve taken a few risks in my life and I’m proud of those risks. Some of them are the proudest points of my life.
I was not invited to attend Bob Jones. I understand that it’s a fine academic school. If I had been invited, I would have gone and I would’ve started by saying, as I have gone to other places that people are not in favor of me, and I would have said: Look, what you’re doing, in this ban on interracial dating, is stupid, it’s idiotic and it is incredibly cruel to many people. I also happen to have an adopted daughter who’s from Bangladesh. And I don’t think that she should be subjected to those kinds of things. In fact, I will stand up and fight against those. You’ve got to bring the message to get these people in to the modern times.
John McCain said in a telephone interview with Reuters over the weekend that he would be “comfortable with a homosexual as president of the United States.”
Source: Buchanan Interview on “Equal Time” Dec 21, 1999
Spanish was spoken in my state when it was carved from the wilderness. Spanish culture influenced the making of Arizona society. And Arizona society cannot sustain its character, absent that influence today. Yes, we all need to speak English well if we are to succeed in this country. But no one should have to abandon the language of their birth to learn the language of their future. We don’t need laws that cause any American to believe we scorn their contributions to our culture.
Source: Landon Lecture at Kansas State University Mar 15, 1999
* McCain supports the following principles regarding affirmative action and discrimination: The federal government should continue affirmative action programs only if such programs do not include quotas
* The Federal Government should consider affirmative action programs if ordered by a court to rectify specific programs.
Source: Project Vote Smart, 1998, http://www.vote-smart.org Jul 2, 1998
Vote to table, or kill, an amendment to repeal the Disadvantaged Business Enterprise [DBE] Program, which requires no less than 10% of highway construction projects funded by the federal government to be contracted to ‘disadvantaged business enterprises’
Would have prohibited job discrimination based on sexual orientation.
Status: Bill Defeated Y)49; N)50; NV)1
@on mccain and fallwell in 2000, mccain called fallwell an “agent of intolerence” a few weeks ago, he recanted on that position.
#62, tell me why he did that? did fallwell apologize, or take back any of the intolerant things he’s said, or stop teaching them, or anything?
no one is trying to say they are the same. but mccain’s change of heart on fallwell is disturbing to say the least.
@not really your argument is illogical. Calling somebody something and recanting it because you thought you overreacted or misspoke doesn’t mean that all of a sudden the person changed or your perceptions of issues changed. It may just be because you felt your words at a certain time were innapropriate or weren’t accurate when you review their full scope. Therefore, there’s nothing that really damages mccain’s reputation when he can still talk to fallwell as a reasonable person on some issues and at the same time dissassociate himself from some of the stupid things that fallwell other wise says. The same would be true of any political ideology—chomsky is still a relevant speaker on a number of political issues such as media conglomerates–whereas some of his other political views may be unsavory to say the least.
@recanting no one is saying mccain should not speak to falwell, thats ridiculous. but taking back his characterization as an “agent of intolerance” (because he overreacted or misspoke, as you suppose, and realized it after six years?) and agreeing to speak at his university implies an acceptence to a set of values i’m not sure i’m comfortable accepting within the mainstream.
@again he may have said something in teh past which he then duly decided was too harsh or was made at a particularily pressing time (this is teh context of his failed 2000 run where i’m sure fallwell was a bush supporter) so it’s not that surprising that he would make overly harsh comments at that time. As for agreeing to speak at that univerity, i think that liberty is probably at the edge of what is defined mainstream–the only difference being that it’s on teh right while columbia or say a brown is on teh left. It shoudln’t be a surprise that as a consequence many members of this community are uncomfortable w/some views that may fall into teh mainstream (for example, its truly disturbign the vast majority of america is still uncomfortable w/atheist politicians–more so than gay ones), but that’s to be expected when dealign with two sides that are still somewhat distant from teh center. The guilt by association arguemnt thus doens’t hold as much weight as mccains own positions, which are closer to teh center than either the collective ones of liberty or columbia.
@congratufuckinglations so mccain doesn’t oppose interracial dating.
obviously a moderate. i mean even i hate those darkies getting with our women.
@i really hope you’re not a contributor to that website. because you join teh club of posters here who have no reasoning ability. it’s actually incredible that none of you seem to possess any grasp of logic (and its not like leftists can’t be brilliantly logical–just watch the 60’s chomsky-buckley debates).
There have been earlier comments in this thread that have tried to equate mccain w/the fringe right and fringe religious right. One thing that the fringe right supported was being against interracial dating. Mccain was against that..which is I agree w/you the minimum in what we expect. However you also failed to note his other comments on other controversial issues for conservatives and voting record that was posted. The reason you did you is because you are a vapid, deluded idiot who has spent their past 1-4 years engaging in a absurd circle jerk when talking about politics. Claiming that one thing that mccain is against doesn’t make him moderate doesn’t rebutt the argument made in previous posts that he’s a moderate conservative. I’m sure it can’t be that you have reading comprehension problems becuase you picked out a post in the middle to reply to. Therefore, there is a substantial body of evidence in some of those posts that suggests that mccain is a moderate conservative. That means he still probably disagrees w/75-80% of your views. That does not make him a despicable person. In fact he’s probably closer to teh center than you (though who knows the merit of that) at least indicating he’s closer to teh mainstream. However, until you can honestly argue a point about mccain’s political character w/o taking small bits out of context and trying to ignore the rest of teh body of evidence, mccain certainly has something over you: namely that he will go to a liberty and then columbia (where he may get attacked from the right and then the left) as opposed to you who has lived in a self masturbatory liberal fantasy, and who’s afraid of the occasional draft that that comes from the outside world when somebody w/different views may be in your presence.
@jerry falwell here i am…still hating gays, still loving AIDS for killing gays, still hating feminists, still hating jews…and DEFINITELY still loving john mccain
@sure be apathetic…i would never encourage it…but…i just hope that those that are apathetic don’t denounce those that stand up (figuratively) against (or in support) on class day…or better yet…denounce away!! at least that would enter apathetics into some active conversation
@ttan OK, I guess we can agree there, then. :)
@jerry falwell i run a pretend school called liberty university where college aged kids learn how to grow up and hate all people who aren’t christian. i sure am excited that john mccain is coming to congratulate my “students” when they “graduate” this year. his presence is going to do wonders for our whole “get sane people to take us seriously” campaign. we’ve been running in place for years but now that my buddy john mccain, who’s tricked even liberals into liking him, is coming to speak at graduation, we’ll be totally legit.
@this is absurd Just because McCain will not make an explicitly POLITICAL speech does not make him divorced from all of the horrendous votes and policies he has endorsed in the past. We need not sit there as passiver receptacles for his hateful discriminatory politics. The era of giving undue deference to elected leaders simply because they are in power has long passed and Class Day is most certainly not a protest-exempt zone. McCain has every right to be at Columbia and we have every right to show him and everybody else at Class Day how we feel. To suggest otherwise is simply absurd. This is our campus and our school and he has no more right to present his views as we do. Simple.
@yes! It is absolutely that simple!
@ttan I don’t see anything wrong with comment #47. Go for it! You have every right to make it clear how much you disagree with him so long as you don’t disrupt Class Day yourself.
However, everyone else has the right not choose not to side with you or participate in your cause.
@that's true but he’s a guest and while he’s here he should be given enough respect to speak his mind. Any disagreements can be aired out before and after. either way, while you have the right to react whatever way you may want, so does the outside world to the institution you portray. If folks make columbia’s atmosphere so vitriolic that people with disimiliar views chose not to attend or visit or speak, then you’re doing a disserve to everyone. The point isn’t disagreeing with mccain, its doing so in a tactful manner–which a small minority within the larger group that resents mccain doesn’t seem interested in.
@this is still absurd There is a difference between disruption of the event and protest generally. It is not appropriate to prevent other people at class day from hearing McCain if they want to.
We all understand this. But it is my own opinion that it would be equally detrimental to Columbia’s reputation as a locus of engaged and socially conscious students for there to be NO response to McCain’s homophobic, anti-choice, discriminatory agenda than the outside world viewing Columbia as “vitriolic”. Folks should know that Columbia’s campus is not intellectually or socially dead but rather a place of intense debate and division that mark a great democracy. Democracy is not polite and it is not deferential. Nobody wants to “ruin” class day for everybody else. We just want to voice our opposition to the man–i think they call it speaking truth to power.
@Roscoe well said
@ttan Look, I’ve said many times already. Do what you want to do. I don’t agree with what you do, but as long as Class Day is not disrupted. I don’t care.
I assert the right to not support you. But that’s not the same thing as actively discouraging you.
@i think you’re misunderstanding me or conflating my comments w/other posters’ then because i dont mind a protest as long as it doesn’t disrupt. The original formation of the facebook group said they sought to have the university reconsider after he was signed on, and such a move would be embarassing.
@unequivocally claiming somebody or some views to be ‘anti-choice’, homophobic, etc is the exact opposite of encouraging intellectual debate. It’s stigmatizing certain positions that one group holds a certain view on, taking that view as dogma, and then claiming discussion when the same group tries to use those held truths to defame a person’s character. If you truly wanted intellectual debate, you would address the issues (obviously you won’t be able to question mccain) but there are certainly others on campus who holds the converse views.
@he is anti-choice it’s not a dogma, its his position. should i spell it out more specifically? he opposes a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion. he supports a virtualy complete ban on abortion in his own state. this is what he thinks. it’s not calling him on it that’s intolerant, it’s holding that position.
@the semantics you unequivocally use are actually meant to lend a negative connotation.
anti-choice is a label affixed by those who are in favor of allowing women to have abortion to those who oppose that option. This seems a little disingenuous. Should pro-lifers be allowed to term those who are legitimately concerned about a women’s well being and consequenlty allowing her to have an abortion pro-killing babies? I’m sure many of them are tempted to do so. Labels like pro-life and pro-choice are probably better thoguh still somewhat stifling on debate, because while they simplify and generalize they at least don’t try to paint a picture of one side not having concern for a certain group. Abortion is a weighty topic where the rights of different groups of humans need to be weighed. to reduce someone who supports it to pro killing babies or someone who opposes it to anti-choice is an unfair label.
@another senior what before and after are you referring to? i didn’t know that mccain would be paying attention to us before and after his speech…
@Jed i hardly think making sure someone realizes that he’s a jerk constitutes a “supression of speech”.
Also, while I agree that it’s a joke to call McCain a moderate, a better point to made is that moderates are terrible. I mean, what has the ‘middle of the road’ ever done for anyone?
Also, this ‘ttan’ character is real annoying.
Also, sorry for my excessive use of quotation marks.
@jmccain i fully endorse free speech. which is why still call ’em gooks.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000103/dreyfuss/3
@the nation's attempt to slander mccain’s reputation is reminiscent of teh swift boats. An ethnic slur is always uncalled far and the nation fails to reveal he actually apologized afterwards for that, but to harp on him for his 1973 references after he came out as a war hero and was brutally tortured at teh hands of his vietcong captors seems particularly appropriate for the sometimes stalin/mao-apologist ilk that writes for the nation. Even better is teh idea that mccain was actually a disappointment without a conscience as a soldier because he did his duty and dropped bombs that he knew would kill people. The vietnam war i’m sure most people will agree was uneeded and a travesty, but slandering the soldiers who fought in it is despicable as is trying to take away from teh fact mccain was a war hero.
@mccain is a war hero….but he’s also a politician with the power to vote on many issues, war related and otherwise…and other things mccain has done reflect on his reputation besides him having fought honorably in a war…you choose which of those things speaks loudest for you
@i agree i wasn’t addressing his full political role—though there hasn’t been any response now that people have posted details which would make him seem more moderate– i only wanted to defend him from that nation article, which is pretty lowly.
@to me this is all about respect on class day.
and what better way to show respect, for ourselves, our university, our families, and eachother, than to do exactly what columbia has taught us to do: think critically, ask questions, and participate in intelligent discourse in the world.
@disappointed it’s unfortunate that this discussion is so ignorant and insensitive, you’d think that four years of a columbia education would give us some sense of political responsibility and a respect for political discourse. just go to the website and, rather than critiquing the web design, read about mccain’s policies and then make a judgment. for me, speaking out at graduation means that i’m asserting my rights as a student and as a member of the queer community – i have a right at my graduation to be congratulated by someone whose voting record doesn’t directly rejects my equal rights. my apologies if that kind of self-respect offends anyone’s apathy.
@ttan Good Lord. Where do you get these ideas that I an trying to “discourage intelligent discourse” about the Honorable Sen. John McCain? Read post 30, where I said:
“See, I don’t see anything wrong with that. I actually don’t really *care* if anything of that nature happens. Which is why I said before and I’ll say again, I don’t see what the big flippin’ deal is. Don’t people have more things to occupy their minds at Class Day and Commencement (like, oh, saying good-bye to 1,300 classmates) than who the speaker is?”
@well, obviously ttan-
i got that idea from post #19, in which you said:
“You don’t need to proclaim it to the world.”
you attitude toward this civil discourse is dismissive at best.
@ttan I’m sorry if I appeared dismissive, but I didn’t say you “can’t” proclaim it to the world. Rather, I said go for it. But I stand by my comment that you don’t need to.
@ttan And furthermore, I get the impression that you believe that any behavior that doesn’t actively encourage or support some initiative opposing Sen. McCain at commencement is unacceptable and a betrayal of one’s Columbia education.
Saying that you don’t need to proclaim your beliefs to the world affirms *my* right to be politically apathetic.
Does a Columbia education teach that you have no right to be politically apathetic at times?
If it does, then I went to the wrong school.
@ttan I applaud your passion and your committment. I just don’t feel impelled to join you. Who critiqued the website? I said it was made by template. How is that a criticism? Many websites (including Bwog) are made by template elements. You have a right to be congratulated at Class Day by whomever you want. Just like other people at Class Day have every right of their own to be congratulated by someone whose voting record *does* accord with their beliefs.
@um... Bwog isn’t on a template…
@umm... CSS sheets?
@c'mon no one here is trying to make columbia a bastion for one point of view…but a space where all can voice their points of view in dialogue – where we can take this rare opportunity to engage in a national discourse on our own turf with more recognition than otherwise available! not all are asking for mccain not to come…i for one am happy he is coming even though i disagree with his politics so that i can voice some of my opinions and take advantage of the open forum that our university can provide!
@obviously that’s fine. no one says you have to love him. it’s only efforts to stop him from speaking here, or to significantly disrupt that proceedings, that would constitute suppression of speech.
@well, obviously ttan-
obviously, you should take a look at the website. no where on it is anyone trying to keep mccain off campus or suppress his speech.
the website is an academic discussion, not a shrill cry to keep mccain off campus. so first off, how can you reasonably try to discourage intelligent discourse about this guy? second, mccain has a lot of issues, ideas and policies that directly effect us. what is a better opportunity to communicate with the guy who may very well be the next president about some of those ideas?
you seem pretty keen on protecting mccain’s free speech (which is under no attack at all) but how about mine?
@the problem here seems to be the degree of opposition. We’re not protesting a horowitz or fallwell or somebody who’s really fringe, but instead a mainstream conservative/moderate conservative, which seems like a little bit of an overreaction.
@a moderate? tell me what about mccain’s platform is moderate? agreed, he’s done a great job of making himself look like a maverick (did you catch colbert calling him out at the whitehouse press dinner?) but when he echos the party line on the war, on gays, on women, etc, when does reality trump image?
@ttan I don’t think McCain’s that much of a moderate. I like him precisely because he can follow the party line without appearing tactless or clueless.
@uh well for those of us that don’t ascribe to that party line….the image he is promoting by making the college circuit at schools like liberty u, columbia, new school,etc is not something i’m willing be washed over by. we know better than to not listen to him as a politician – as a guy whose votes affect our lives…even though he won’t talk politics at graduation and even though we’ll be celebrating a day about our credentials not his.
@oh boy, the kossite inspired attempt to demonize him as a wingnut again. You just parroted teh website and offered three issues where mccain offered right of center views (by the way, on teh war, he has criticized the administration, and supporting the war–like kerry and clinton did originally doesn’t make you conservative.) However anybody with half a brain woudl realize there are also many more issues in govt than just those three and his view in some of those indicate he’s a moderate conservative. For example, he:
Voted YES on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt.
Denounced “Swift Boat Vets” ads as dishonest.
Voted YES on allowing workers to choose between overtime & comp-time.
Voted YES on raising the minimum wage to $7.25 rather than $6.25
Suggested replacing the ethanol subsidy w/education spending.
# Voted YES on allowing reimportation of Rx drugs from Canada.
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages.
Voted YES on banning campaign donations from unions & corporations.
Voted YES on $17.9 billion to IMF.
Voted YES on including oil & gas smokestacks in mercury regulations.
Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010.
Voted NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months.
This of course doesn’t count all teh mainstream conservative positions he holds (which even some dems do) as opposed to teh far out wingnut ones.
@agreed in fact, i don’t like to be in a room with anyone who’s right of center if i don’t have to. It’s disgusting to me because they are appalling creatures who also advocate extremely offensive views on a small cross section of issues and frankly i can’t stand to bear their soul soaking opression even if the reason i’m in their presence has nothing to do with the issues we disagree over. I don’t have to tolerate anyone, that’s teh beauty of being open minded and enlightened by my experience at columbia. It is my duty to make sure my conscience is never scathed by the presence of nefarious agents of evil that exist all around us.
@senior I don’t think it’s stupid. If someone is speaking at my graduation ceremony who advocates national policies that I find extremely offensive, I think I have a responsibility to myself and to others to at least indicate that I do not agree with those policies. That does not mean I do not think that McCain should be speaking, or that I am not thrilled to have a figure of national importance speaking at Class Day. But I also need to be able to walk out of the ceremony knowing that I acted according to my conscience.
@ttan OK, fine, walk out if it makes you feel better. You don’t need to proclaim it to the world.
@McFister McCain is a big phony and I need to let the world know.
@Tao... No, the three of them (note how many people have commented) can claim it to the world all they want. But they have no right to stop him from speaking. And the idea that his speech is “illegitimate” because he won’t respond to them is just moronic: should politicians be banned from TV because there’s no “forum” in which you can respond to their opinions?
Face it, President McCain is going to make for a much more interesting speaker than anyone else Columbia could have dragged up, including Bob Kraft.
@huzzah! mccain ’08. better him than kerry or even hillary.
@ttan 1. They have no right to “stop” him from speaking.
2. They have every right to proclaim to the world how much they oppose him. It’s just rather pointless and nobody will care.
3. I like McCain. I hope he isn’t considered too old for a run in 2008.
@Rachel i’m tired of everyone acting like the only speaker columbia ever has is bob kraft. what about tony kushner two years ago? that’s obviously way better.
besides, i hear bob kraft has some real nice bitchtitties.
@meh not too many people care about tony kushner, really. he’s not a major national figure like mccain is.
@Rachel What I really would like is to hear a number of CC students diss Tony Kushner like you just did. Maybe, then, I would know once and for all that Columbia students are just money-grubbing assholes who don’t care about the arts.
For anyone who has any legitimate interest in what Columbia means to the world, Columbia history, etc., take a look at his speech. It was amazing.
@i'm sorry what’s so morally superior about head up their asses overall worthless coneisseurs of the arts? they contribute nothign except in teh deluded fantasies of pretentioius idiots who don’t realize they’re actually just taking away from real productivity. The fact that nobody knows who tony kushner is is because he isn’t in general the type of person who would appeal to most people.
@ugh I never “dissed” tony kushner. I just said he wasn’t well known- outside of new york, outside of liberal circles, and especially outside of columbia. this is an ivy league institution of national stature. similar schools attract leading world figures. mccain is the least influential figure we should hope grace us with a presence at graduation.
@senior sorry — by “walk out” i meant leave at the end. not walk out in the middle of the speech. an important distiction indeed.
@ttan Um.. what do you mean by “act according to your conscience” then? What “act” can you perform that is not disruptive?
@senior oh you know… try and start a conversation with people, educate myself about what exactly mccain’s politics are, wear a button… nothing radical, i admit. but if you read the site carefully, they don’t talk about walking out during the ceremony or really being disruptive in any way. it seems like they are looking for an alternative that still brings attention to the issues, etc. Which I, for one, appreciate and respect.
@ttan See, I don’t see anything wrong with that. I actually don’t really *care* if anything of that nature happens. Which is why I said before and I’ll say again, I don’t see what the big flippin’ deal is. Don’t people have more things to occupy their minds at Class Day and Commencement (like, oh, saying good-bye to 1,300 classmates) than who the speaker is?
@no they’re too much in denial about going to a school tied to instruments of power and privilege. they can’t bear to believe they’ve been associated with it for four years.
@ttan Shrug. Their loss.
@i don't think... … that anyone believes mccain is going to come here and make a political speech. he’s not that stupid.
@exactly which is why its stupid to protest anyone who disagrees w/you on a bunch of issues. It just paints a negative picture of this school. At least the group has promised it’ll be a quiet and peaceful demonstration, which at least indicates they’re somewhat mature.
@woops meant they could have made sure the speech was not political
@ttan I honestly don’t see what the big flippin deal is. If Bob Avakian was my Class Day speaker, I wouldn’t care. Sure I’d snicker a bit, but I wouldn’t care.
@claiming that youre not acting as a group that will effectively surpress speech by refusing a speaker (whose not even here to give a political speech) solely based upon their political views sends a clear message to others about how columbia treats those with views different from them. These students can hide behind the idea that they don’t want to surpress speech, but the truth is their action speak louder than ther words. On top of that they had other alternatives they could have pursued if they were really worried that McCain would start ripping on the pro choice and gblt crowd—they could have just asked bollinger to make sure the speech was political. It’s a shame that comment 9 is so biased they can’t even see through bs.
@what? how are they “refusing a speaker”?
@umm... did you all actually read the site? cuz it doesn’t sound like they’re trying to “cut columbia off” from any national discourse…
@Jack The site is very nicely produced, though. Looks like one of those post-thesis seniors is a comp-sci major?
@ttan You hardly need to be a comp sci major to know how to make decent looking web sites. Take a look at the source. It’s obvious that large elements of the page layout (if the not the entire page layout itself) came from a pre-existing template.
@Ah! Thank you, Tao Tan, for opining on this subject. I feel just a little bit more alive now.
@ttan I’m glad I’ve enlightened you on this fair day.
@El Greco Stop being jealous, Tao.
@Penn '06 Would you rather have Jodie Foster speak?
@dear penn '06 get your own bwog, frat boy
@^ i agree I agree with the post above. And I’m a liberal.
@bah how ridiculous to want to cut columbia off from the national discourse and make it an ideological bastion for one point of view.
@DHI Right.
@seriously... If it had been ANY Democrat senator, I guarantee that these people wouldn’t be getting all bent out of shape.