Oct

9

Protesters protest

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If you noticed a hubbub in front of Lerner at 11:00 AM this morning, it wasn’t another protest–just the aftershocks. The People on the Stage netted what appeared to be most of the local media outlets–plus bystanders–in a press conference to get out their message about what happened on October 4th.  Bwog couldn’t help but notice a book next to the podium: Marxist Theories of Imperialism: a Critical Study.


camerasFirst up is Chicano Caucus political chair Karina Garcia, who reads a statement claiming that the adminstration is treating “racist, fascist, armed, vigilante” Minutemen as victims. Apparently, Prezbo has received over 3,000 letters of support for the protestors in the past 36 hours…and Bwog was feeling sorry for itself. 

Then comes Martin Lopez, C ’09, whom you can recognize from the six black and white still photographs in which he’s getting kicked by a Minuteman. Before that, he says he was kicked by Chris Kulawik himself, although he can’t be sure. “I demand that Columbia University not take any reprisals against the students who took the stage,” Lopez said. Good news, Martin: according to a source in Public Safety, they’re not planning on taking any disciplinary action, although the deans may still do so. But at least you’ve got the fuzz off your back.

lopezThen comes a woman from National Lawyers Guild, who harkens back to the good old days of the 60s, when 30 students were suspended in a protest over Columbia’s affiliation with a weapons think tank. The protesters, then, are “continuing their legacy of protest against societal injustice.” Power to the people!

Then comes Monique Dols, head of the Columbia chapter of the International Socialist Organization, who will match Kulawik’s record by appearing on Fox News tonight (O’Reilly) for the THIRD time.

Next a lady from Washington Heights brings it all back home with a reference to that other issue, Manhattanville. “We’re not only exploited in our countries, we also find exploitation here,” she says. “They seem to forget that Columbia is in the midst of Harlem, which is a disgrace, a disrespect, and we will not stand by it.” She’s a practitioner of “radical compassion” and “subversive love.” Hey…can we get some of that?

Last up is Adhemir Romero, president of the Chicano Caucus, who tippytoes around the issue by dissociating the group from the inside protest while defending the principle. “We were exercising our right to free speech,” he said.

martinThen came questions, answered by Karina and Monique. A Sparticist tries to offer statement as question, the New York Sun challenges the violence, the press gets angry at the students’ opacity, and the event becomes a circus.

This Wednesday, during the Republicans’ event with ex-PLO terrorist Walid Shoebat, they’re holding an “open session/presentation” on the Minutemen at Broadway Presbyterian. Does that mean you’ll be protesting the Minutemen?

“We’ll be having that presentation,” says Karina.

You’re not answering the question? “I think that question answer itself,” says Karina .

The event finishes up with a heated squabble between two white Columbia students and the protestors. Then another student joins in, this one wearing a kippah. One protester, obviously not a student, asks: “Are you for free speech for Joseph Massad?”

Bwog went on its merry way, glad for a sunny day to lighten the mood. 

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138 Comments

  1. right  

    i can definitely see the relevance of mentioning they were two 'white' students- probably kkk members.

    Also adhemir, cmon man, don't associate w/these guys. The chicano caucas can still maintain they're for free speech and support the outside protest w/o associating w/these thugs.

  2. oreilly  

    according to this, monique will be on oreilly with michelle malkin, who has the second post on the incident as well as uber babe kirsten powers http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006083.htm

  3. karina  

    man, she is such an airhead is incredible

  4. wack shit  

    "We're not only exploited in our countries, we also find exploitation here," she says. "They seem to forget that Columbia is in the midst of Harlem, which is a disgrace, a disrespect, and we will not stand by it."

    Yeah, heaven forbid an educational institute be allowed to creep into harlem. Sure, crime will decrease, employment figures will go up, but hey, can't have none of that gentrification going on. That's bad.

  5. uhm  

    wild guess, but i think she means it's a disgrace that they forget it's in harlem. she just said it badly

  6. bwog  

    can you send avi again or somebody else instead of monique? she's unhinged and doesn't really represent the many of us who aren't happy how fox is trying to characterize us all

  7. iso website  

    lists their conference for saturday:

    New York City--West Harlem/Columbia University

    October 14, 4 p.m.
    Why We Confronted the Minutemen: Racism, Free Speech and the Rise of the Right

    Broadway Presbyterian Church, 114th

    For information | Call 646-452-8631 | E-mail [email protected]

    http://www.internationalsocialist.org/branches.html

    • wirc  

      When did Morningside Heights become West Harlem? That's like calling Chelsea or Meatpacking "West Midtown."

      • justine  

        calling the area morningside heights is a realtively new thing, i think maybe mid 90s or something. the obvious intention was for it not to be considered west harlem. as your post suggests, the initiative was succesful.

        • wirc  

          I'm sorry Justine, but Morningside Heights has been use for over 120 years and was finalized by 1900. I'm not really sure where you heard that, but "Morningside Heights" was given to the area to associate it with Morningside Park and later to distance it from the Bloomingdale Insane Asylum. It's also remained consciously divorced from Harlem, dating back to the founding of St. John the Divine.

        • The WPA

          Guide to New York, in 1939, has an entire chapter devoted to Morningside as a distinct neighborhood centered around academic and religious institutions, and firmly defined by the (sharp) geographical features on both sides. Definitely not a new phenomenon -- the name just didn't mean much to most people until the neighborhood picked up in the last 15 years, basically.

  8. hmmm  

    I've always thought it was generally acceptable to kick fat people regardless of their political beliefs.

  9. wtf  

    Oh great, a bunch of extremist loonies outside to misrepresent most of the left on campus for the media ONCE AGAIN. Most people here are not ISO nutjobs... can't somebody get that on the record? Please??

  10. Media

    I was at the press conference and the press, particularly folks from CBS--Rich Lamb--and NBC (not to mention the Post and Sun) were horrible and highly biased...They interviewed the two "white" students who identified themselves as "young conservatives" and admitted they were NOT at the event. So what do they know? The journalistic standards in this city are just so low it is disgusting. And all within earshot of the CJS. Fair and balanced allright.

    • fair and balanced  

      I wasn't at the press conference, but how is it a sign of bias to interview people who are opposed to the protestors actions? It seems to me that broadcasting both the views of the protestors and the views of their opponents is the essence of telling both sides of the story.

      Fox News and the Sun are obviously in a league of their own, and the Post has only run an editorial, but I thought the stories in the Daily News (written by a Columbia student) and the Times (2 days late, but still) were pretty fair.

  11. Bwog, you are stupid  

    Ehmmm That is a textbook required for a class. Occasionally even protestors do things like attend class.

  12. this guy  

    is horribly horrible

  13. as a member

    of both C4 and CR I do agree with the poster above, Monique Dols does not represent the mainstream left here. Lets face it I have had my share of arguments with the CD and the left, but always, and I mean always, it ends up civil and we respect each others right to believe what we believe.

    I wish OReilly would let everyone know that she is from a wacky fringe group (ISO) on campus so people take her for what she is and represents rather than the mainstream left on campus

  14. person  

    Monique Dols is not the head of the ISO. David Judd is the president.

    -Keith

  15. McFister

    Let's see what the Minutemen have to say about the incident:

    "Photos, Video, News Update: Minuteman Project Speech at Columbia University Ends in Reconquista Riot"

    Reconquista Riot. What a bunch of assholes.

    • Shane

      They're saying it like it is, pal.

      There's no difference between you Marxists freaks and LaRaza, Reconquista, or the Black Panthers and the KKK for that matter.

      You want to defend lawlessness and the destruction of America? You want to spit in the face of liberty and justice? Go ahead.

      But if you're so proud of being Mexican/Latina/Latino/Hispanic/Chic-ano/Brown or whatever the hell you want to label yourselves as...why are you here? Go home already...We're not going to Mexico and screaming about how UN-American Mexico is.

      You make no sense. Your argument is almost not even worth adressing because there's no basis in fact. But hey, it's not entirely your fault, you probably went to public school, and most haven't been very good for the last 30 or 40 years thanks to the Marxist/Communist agenda of the far-left democratic party.

  16. So.....

    Any news on the Columbia student who tackled the Minuteman?

  17. Link Link Link  

    http://www.minutemanproject.com/default.asp?contentID=191

    is the link to the minuteman Project article. Go to the photos section and see numbers 23 and 24. That is (obviously) the kid who is frenzied and starts the fight over the banner. Is he a student? Is he Scott? If so he should be suspended. So should the Socialist in the Blue shirt who tackles him in the video posted earlier in Bwog.

    • I looked and

      I saw all the videos with "Scott" aka Banner-Boy. Granted, the destruction of the banner was uncalled for, but I can't see if Banner Boy actually hits anyone. If Banner Boy hit someone, he should definitely be expelled or charged. But if he didn't hit anyone, then it is just symbolic warfare.

  18. also  

    check out how different administrative departments have different design schemes.

    CUIT is overhauling all its archaic pages.

    Student Services is overhauling theres with matching scheme.

    Student Affaits... hasnt really updated any sites except Admissions- which is pretty snazzy now.

    Check some other awesome dated/tacky pages:

    Provost's office: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/provost/

    President's office:
    http://www.columbia.edu/cu/president/

  19. the press  

    has completely misrepresented events and our university. Labeling an assault on peaceful protesters an attack on the Minutemen is complete hypocrisy. I may not agree with the protesters in all respects, but i'm just glad they're trying to get what really happened out there.

  20. well,

    I hope the protesters get all the media they want. I especially hope that that Karina Garcia gets plenty more opportunities to say that the Minutemen should not be allowed to speak.

  21. rjt  

    A question for the protestors (if this has already been answered in the 500+ posts on this place already, I apologize):

    What was the goal of this protest?

    I don't just mean the storming of the stage; I can't figure out the stated goal of the protest in the first place. Most of the posters I have seen give a reason to the effect of "if Hitler came, wouldn't you protest?" That's not an answer. Why would you protest Hitler if he came? Is the goal to convince the given controversial speaker that his or her viewpoint is wrong? Is the goal to convince other, uninvolved parties that the speaker's viewpoint is wrong? Is the goal to call attention to the issue? It seems to me that in each of these cases, there would be a more direct and rational way of achieving the goal. So am I missing something? Why does protest of speakers take place at all, and what is it supposed to achieve?

  22. details

    As was explained, placing a banner on stage so that it is widely visible is not the same thing as charging the speaker. Then, the speakers' goons attacked the mostly female protesters and they left...and this is a "free speech" issue?

    • again  

      youre trying to gloss over the running through the barricades and charging the stage w/over a dozen people part. that is violent. and don't give me this 'mostly female' protestors bit when there are a clearly a couple big guys up there too

      remember, you already had that first banner up there w/two people, before anybody had charged. that rushing of the stage was violent and provoked this

    • right but

      That isn't what happened. Many students, both male and female, rushed the stage after that yellow banner came on. It could have been perceived as threatening to the speakers on stage, although they were certainly not attacked at all. There is also a young man (from the ISO) seen pushing back at the guy pulling down the banner. Though the protesters certainly didn't kick or punch anyone, it was definitely a scuffle, not just evil conservatives assaulting poor protesters. Look at the goddamn footage people. Anyone on stage themselves has an obvious bias and a pretty good reason to exaggerate.

      • watch it again

        "Though the protesters certainly didn't kick or punch anyone, "

        But they did. Watch the first univision clip again. From 33 to 43 seconds in, you can clearly see the big ISO guy in blue tackle one of the minuteman. Univision would not focus on this act of violence because it counters the claim that the protestors were nonviolent. Univision just wants to show the Minutemen as being violent

  23. TechElegance

    What the protesters should have done, in the spirit of Ivy pranks, was to hijack the projector and show their messages on the big screen...The low tech method led to a low tech response...

  24. Anonymous  

    I'm jumping on the bandwagon to say that Monique Dols is definitely not one of the best representatives of the Left at Columbia - in fact, she's one of the last people I'd pick to represent the political climate at the school as she's waaaaay out there. Fox News will just use her to have a field day against liberals, and it would be in the best interest of Columbia to not feed the Fox ego any further. The only people she's doing a favor by appearing on TV again are the conservatives who already think Columbia is home to some sort of "left-wing jihad." Do we really need to give them more fuel?

    When Alan Dershowitz spoke a couple years ago (the first of two appearances he made within about a year), Monique and another girl unfurled a banner calling him a supporter of torture. Dershowitz handled it well - invited Monique and the other girl to the front of the room with the banner and asked them where they got the impression he supported torture. He then proved them wrong, point by point. That was a good way to handle opposition - but then again, Dershowitz can make a coherent argument without resorting to ad hominem attacks. You can't say that about all speakers. Just sayin'.

    • just sayin  

      yeah. same situation. dershowitz invites protestors in the crowd up vs two protestors sneak onto the stage and then a dozen or so charge though the barracade and rush onto the stage. also, i was at both events and the constant heckling at the minuteman even was nowhere to be seen at the horowitz one

      • Anonymous  

        You're right, it's not the same. Dershowitz didn't have cronies who went out and started kicking protestors who were - shock horror! - holding a banner, did he?

        • wow  

          julia. you're so intellectually dishonest its incredible. you tried to take a cheap jibe at the way you believe the minutemen incident was provoked. I clearly dilineated why provocation was different in those two incidents. You didn't say anything in reply to that because you were wholly wrong and instead are now trying to defame the entire even again by using the example of one despicable outside guy who kicked someone. Don't mention the socialist who tackled the guy in black or that the provocation was caused by a violent storming of the stage where the protestors broke though barricades though?

          and somehow you still claim to be a fair or reasonable voice or to legitimately claim other voices are biased. I really hope you don't make arguments in person like this because all you're doing is getting beaten on a point and then taking yet another cheap shot.

        • CC 1970

          Self-righteous liberal red-headed stepchildren like you are what make me ashamed to say that I am a Columbia alumnus. I only take comfort in the fact that, being brought up in your little bubble existence, you are a complete naif with respect to what of damage your kind has wrought upon this world.

    • Yes

      It's pretty amusing that she was quoted being concerned with free speech during the MEALAC incident, but is so quick to suppress the speech of those she disagrees with.


      http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/278807p-238905c.html

      "What's at stake here is really about the range of debate that's considered acceptable on campus," said Columbia student Monique Dols, 24.


      Funny how that works. This isn't an issue of principle for her. Its simply a soapbox to espouse her views. When convenient, she'll user civil liberties as a crutch, and when inconvenient, she'll discard them without a moment's hesitation.

      • Ron Lewenberg

        Actually, the left playing games with free speech and tolerance is nothing new. According to them speech is a projection of power. If all else is equal, then those in power win. Since the evil right-wing fascists monarchist anti-deluvion nutcases... are runnning this country and Columbia, free speech would only help the right.
        To fix this, speech and tolerance must be weighted to give true equality and even preference to the oppressed and their beknighted revolutionary vanguard.

        I am not making this BS up. "Repressive Tolerance" was popularized by Herbert Marcuse, author of "Eros and civilization".
        Marcuse like other members of the Institute for Social Marxist/the Frankfurt School fled to the US with the help of Columbia. Many, like Marcuse, taught here. In fact, one of Marcuse's sons, Peter, still teaches here.
        http://www.marcuse.org/peter/peter.htm

        The recent controversy is a symptom of a much larger disease, the cancer of communism which has invaded almost the entire university.

        • tumor  

          "cancer of communism"? even if you could argue that the administration and professors are red through and through, they sure aren't doing a swell of a job indocrinating the majority of the campus. For every person who rushed that stage, there's probably 20 looking to work for citibank after they graduate.

          • Columbia Banker

            CitiGROUP. Citigroup Corporate & Investment Bank (Citigroup CIB), to be exact, a motly mix of Salomon and Smith Barney. We mock the lilliputian ambitions of those who would deign to work in the rundown corridors of retail and commercial finance at CitiBANK.

  25. Politics

    This happens because other voices are slow to show support for issues that concern to "people of color." Migration does not affect most of the students at CU and they do not care about others (so much for a liberal campus). This is a key issue for many Latino students who are then left to feel that their peers do not care about them or their isues. This exacerbates feelings of alienation and exclusion. In the meantime, the right wing laughs and goes on picking on the minorities. Gotta love American politics!

  26. GrowUp

    I know, 1970, isn't is about time you grew up? Wow. I personally am glad standards have gone up. Todays kids sound a lot smarter than you old farts.

  27. guys  

    The violence was mutual. That is very clear from the tape. Who provoked and/or started it is a good question to ask, but lets not pretend anyone who rushed the stage was an innocent victim.

  28. Columbian  

    To be super-accurate, the Republicans have more members than the ISO on campus... Also there were many protestors who are not members of the ISO, and the ISO shouldn't be singularly blamed just because others who participated did not take public responsibility.

  29. rjt  

    I'm finding it hard to believe that nobody has a reponse to offer to a question I posted on this topic a bit ago (#24):

    What was the goal of the protest?

    • Blindingly Obvious  

      As a former left-wing "progressive" myself, I'll attempt an interpretation.

      Most left-wing groups protest as a method of generating meaning and defining themselves against an "other". Protest is inherently a "no-saying" activity--not a positive program but a definitive statement against something else. Defining an "other" to reflect against is a common means of self-definition in all kinds of situations, and the "stand" the protesters made vs. the Minuteman Project is an effective way to form an identity.

      As you yourself stated in your post, it seems unlikely that the protest is directed at the obstensible "target", gain media attention, or convince uninvolved parties (as a banner doesn't effectively convey a program the way, say, an intellectual discussion during a Question and Answer session would).

      Protest is a display--a collective show at power--designed mostly for the protestors themselves.

      I apologize if this seems like psuedo-intellectual drivel; I don't mean to sound pompous, these are just some amateur conclusions I reached reflecting on my years as a "campus activist".

      • rjt  

        Thank you. This has been my opinion for years: protest is for the self-gratification of the protestors. I wanted to give an opportunity for defense before saying that.

        Anybody else, feel free to prove me wrong.

  30. bwogger's mom

    add mine to the 3000 letters of support to Bollinger, it was sent today...the press has been an absolute disgrace. So far the best coverage of all has been right here.
    Tonight channel 4's coverage was totally biased and I am ashamed to have spent 18 years working there among those editors. It has gotten much worse in the past few years. Pundit television rules the airwaves whether we like it or not.

    I really think its a joke to rely on a bad interpretation of what free speech means because when people go on the news they are shut down all the time only the gatekeepers are called EDITORS! No one has any true right to total freedom to speak where the ruling party doesn't want you to speak. (in that case that night the ruling party was the students; when you are on O'Reilly its him shutting you up..and don't let me get started about the mayor... he has so much ruling power just try to get a word in edgewise if you are an ordinary citizen... smoking prohibitions in BARS anyone...?) The difference is that they all expect kids -- especially Ivy leage educated ones with their supposed spoons in their mouths to be held to a higher standard than they. Its called hypocrasy. Media does it well and politicians do it best. You could all use a good PR firm.

    Remember this: If students hadn't gotten up onstage and if there had been a 'silent vigil' for instance on the side of the stage with the students standing there holding the huge banner while the guy spoke, it might have been a good photo op for Spectator and no one would have gotten in trouble. i maintain they'd have never gotten this kind of attention.... the thing is to make it positive attention... frankly the sentiment really doesn't seem positive but then again, it could just be the media bashing Columbia again as its target.

  31. OHHHHHH  

    they're SOCIALISTS!! THAT clears up about a million points for me. Nevertheless, I still maintain (despite my previously deleted bwog comment) that both groups are very much representative of the state of this country as a whole, where both the liberal and conservative parties have crumbled under the weight of their very own extremists, and have collapsed into mass hordes of...let's face it, MORONS. I do not support either side, and I believe they were both wrong in their actions during the original incident (and much more so in their subsequent appearances). However, the Minutemen, just like you and everyone else have a right to express their views. You have a right to disagree with them. Neither of you has any legal claim to either ban their speaking or resort to childish violence. I was honestly disgusted with the actions of both parties on Wednesday night. Your subsequent appearances on pundit circuses like O'Reilly and Hannity ONLY MADE THINGS WORSE. Instead of quietly hanging your heads in shame for acting like elementary school children throwing tantrums in the yard during recess, you decided to PROVE to the world that that is in fact your status. You all think you are accomplishing something with your petty arguments and appearances on national television. Guess what, you are still children and the news stations are using you for their own ratings and nothing else. As you demonstrated on Wednesday night, none of you have the mental capacity or maturity required to effect ANY kind of change in this world, because you are unable to even hold a civil dialogue. Furthermore, your insistence on being right, despite glaring evidence to the contrary is a disgrace to this university and to your respective parties. Being invited on a news show IS NOT PROOF THAT YOU ARE RIGHT. Rapists and murderers have received more airtime on far more respected shows than all of you combined. I ask, no, I implore you to abandon your petty and inconsequential conflicts and to do a favor to every party involved: take responsibility for your actions instead of trying to place blame exclusively on the other party. Stand, in separate groups if you please, on Low Plaza, and HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME.

  32. anon  

    I am glad Martin "demands the administration not make any reprisals." I demand an f-ing ham sandwich.

  33. Factor

    So, segment came on and there was no one from CU...at least so far...

  34. Anonymous

    and it was really boring. I'm glad that O'Reilly quit the Columbia bashing and just outright said, it was radicals. The left has them, the right has them. Now whether or not left wing radicals are taking over academic discourse at a feverish pace is debatable, especially if you listen to Coulter, Malkin, or others from that side of the table. They will tell you that College Republican groups are growing in size, they will tell you that campus Christian groups are growing in size.

    To some degree I think the panel on O'Reilly's show was right. Most of them don't want to listen to opposing viewpoints. Let's be honest though, O'Reilly doesn't either. He shuts off people's mics, tells them to shut up and interrupts them constantly. But he is irrelevant to this topic.

    I get the feeling that while most of us would agree that storming the stage was a bad idea, and should have allowed Gilchrist to finish speaking, the protestors believed, for good reason, that if they took no action, to bring attention to themselves, that their cause would have been lost upon people, in just the same way that the number of deaths in the war is an "aww that's terrible" passing thought during the dinner time of Americans.

    Kirsten powers was probably right, conservative college students could really care less to hear Al Franken, Michael Moore, etc. But to say that violations of free speech don't happen in any capacity from the conservative side of the aisle is crazy. Of course it does not happen as a characteristic of every conservative, just as what happened with Gilchrist wasn't indicative of Columbia as a whole. There are always isolated incidents, how many people have been removed from airplanes, the State of the Union Address, etc. for the content of their T-Shirts? People being kicked out of Presidential speeches and debates because they were id'ed by bumper stickers on their car? I mean, it's silly, but it happens, we move on.

    Oh and people like to yell at Coulter because she is batshit crazy. That is one ad hominem I feel fine in making as she has very little respect from both sides of the political aisle and makes outrageous falsified no basis of truth comments. A lot.

    • hey stephen  

      i agree with your coulter thing (i'm a republican) and disagree w/some of your other points, but i didn't get to see the factor.

      i know its kinda a lot but can you give a little summary of what they said this time and whether monique wasa on?

    • i would  

      love to hear al franken if he was here. he's hilarious unlike most liberal politically themed comedians. in fact, he's probably the best politically themed comedian there is, either side of the aisle.

      moore, while i disagree with him, would also be an event i'd attend. i can guarantee you though that his q and a session would be a bunch of questions asking about factual innaccuracies in his 'documentaries'.

      Also its unfair to say, well conservatives would also disrupt speeches. you have to have tangible evidence.

  35. stop being wussies  

    and read #51. Actual valid points there.

  36. Anonymous

    Well let's see. Today was a bit tamer than the last few days of CU on FOX. Monique was not on, to my knowledge, I turned it off after they went through the part about Columbia and didn't make any mention of Monique on the upcoming segments.

    Tonight O'Reilly had Michelle Malkin and Kirsten Powers on as his guests and it was kind of funny because Malkin was being very long winded and I could see O'Reilly get a little flustered when he tried to interrupt and get a word in and she wouldn't let him. And their being on the same team, he didn't want to get angry with her on TV.

    Anyways, so O'Reilly was talking about the press conference that was given today by the protestors and he posed the question 'is Columbia being taken over by the radical left'. A somewhat more fair question since the last few days, he has called questioned that and outright said we are all fascist-liberal-anarchists. Then Malkin went on a rant about how she has written a book on the topic and how these students don't want to hear anything that they don't want to hear, and all the free-speech being assaulted business you've been hearing ad nauseum for the last 3 days. And she reminisced about how she put up with the same thing at Oberlin AND IT WAS TOUGH!

    Then Powers took her turn, she being the "liberal" side of this fair and balanced show.. having served in the Clinton administration, and said that she just thought that the protestors were over priveleged rich kids whose parents have wasted $35k on their education. To which the camera panned and the audience was like "$35k holy shit!". She said, that discourse was about hearing the point of view of others even if you vehemently disagree with it and it pains you. Malkin and Powers talked about how they like to agree on things and Bill O'Reilly sat there contented to not have to shout down a 20 year old girl to get his jollies off.

  37. Anonymous

    after doing a little digging, it seems that liberals enjoy protesting and convertly entering republican events, and republicans like kicking people.

    Again, isolated cases, because let's be honest, like the rest of America, Columbia students have other things to do, many are are completely apathetic about politics, and are too lazy to go. Then you have these "isolated cases" that actually care about things enough to take action.

    http://www.actupny.org/reports/rnc_nyc-kicking.mov

    • stephen  

      that's not at all the same. those were people who again went into a private event and disrupted it and it devolved into violence. You have yet to prove conservatives at college ever act in the manner as we've seen liberals act over and over.

      • Anonymous

        Just because I can't google something doesn't mean I am so naive to think it never happens.

        Oh wait, I found one. http://wc.arizona.edu/papers/98/36/01_2.html

        • again.  

          definitely disruptive, but nothing physical. verbal heckling from teh audience is deplorable, but can be dealt w/. pies, and physical rushing are differetn

        • Zona  

          Interesting that security escorted the students out of auditorium before heckling turned into something worse, like say a mob of people going through a barricade, jumping on a stage, and ending a speech. The groups involved were formally warned by the administration and the President of the University issued a strong condemnation of trying to silence "free speech". All for just a little heckling, which we all know happens at a lot of events (see Finkelstein, Ashcroft)

          Maybe if Prezbo and the administration had the cojones to attack the problem where it started situations wouldn't escalate like they did Wednesday. I think everyone admits that the tension of the situation that was escalated through prolonged and spiteful heckling definitely contributed to the chaos that occurred.

  38. Oberlin

    Yes!!! You caught that. Malkin did not want to say she had gone to OBERLIN. But, She can bad mouth Columbia, a school she sounded like she knows nothing about, and probably would not be able to get into. Pathetic.

  39. jordan  

    One thing I've noticed about this whole mess is certain other interests trying to hijack the issue at hand--the arabic on the banner, some of the speeches today about gentrification in harlem, the joseph massad incident. What does joseph massad have to do with the minutemen? certainly, there has to be more nuance to the issue than blanket support for one side or the other... but as it appears, i guess not...

  40. Anonymous  

    Yeah, well, at least I put my name behind my words. If you'd like to admit what your name is, I'm sure we could have plenty of discussions in person.

  41. Anonymous

    well when you, actually I don't know who you are since you don't put your name or a referenceable name, say "its unfair to say, well conservatives would also disrupt speeches" and I find you disruption, you say, oh but that's not like pies and physical rushing.

    And when I say, oh those are isolated cases (pies? cmon that's humor) you say, oh liberals act like this over and over, yet i have heard very few if any cases where anything similar to what happened with Gilchrist occurred.

    Why are you so adamant on making this a "the left is the devil and is guilty of everything and the right would NEVER EVER do that"? And then others tack on, "welcome to the real world! get out of your ivy league bubble", when it is the case that the real world is full of injustices from all fronts.

    • i don't think  

      the left if the devil and the right is perfect, but considering all cases of physical disruption in the recent past from teh incident i've went through all seem to be left attacking right, its not a fair assertion to brush over an incident saying 'its an outlier which happens on both sides'

      you can say its an outlier but you need proof for that second part

  42. not funny  

    To some extent the humor found in throwing pies depends on your political orientation and the nature of the subject. Pat Buchanan and Coulter getting pied is funny to most people (and in the case of Coulter, to me). However, I can imagine a lot of people would be offended if the Pope got pied, the head of NOW got pied by a male, or Jesse Jackson got pied by a white-guy. I realize most people find it harmless, but some consider it rather serious and I can see their point.

  43. Silly liberals

    "There is also a young man (from the ISO)"

    Actually, he's not in the ISO. But hey, way to pull that one out of your ass really confidently. They should give you a job at the Spectator.

    I love how someone criticism of Monique cites Alan Dershowitz, anti-Arab hack, proven plagiarist, and, yes, advocate of the legalization of torture that he is.

    How dare Monique point out that Dershowitz supports torture. What a loon! Fox News will have a field day!

    Maybe the Democrats should teach us lefties how to avoid looking so crazy. By overwhelmingly supporting spending billions of dollars on a gigantic fucking wall that will run the length of the US-Mexican border, they really took the wind of the far-rights sails, huh?

    Now that's how you oppose immigrant bashing scapegoat artists. Accept their underlying assumptions, support their insane policies, try to outflank them from the right.

    That's a combination that can't lose!

    I guess it's obvious where the College Dems. get it from...

  44. Sprinkles  

    Everyone take a minute to chill out, and enjoy some friendly, quality PENGUIN:

    http://www.paperboy.nl/index.cfm?PID=8A869BB2-70C9-4A59-B6AB281842985E3E

  45. Not everyone  

    who attends Columbia has a silver spoon in their mouth. Some people are on financial aid, and/or have to go into massive debt and work to go here. I think the characterization of the protestors as spoiled kids who don't comprehend the real world is unfair. Not to say that there isn't a privelege that comes from going here, but that there are probably a fair amount of protestors both on and off the stage who do have an experiential and not just theoretical understanding of oppression, whether it be from their race, gender, class, or sexual orientation.

    • they're  

      socialists. the same people who support terrorists in palestine and a host of other idiotic causes. they have nothing better to do with their lives, they KNOW they won't become anything significant later, so they decide to be a big deal whenever they can, by whatever means necessary. and you can't say they've failed. how many opportunities in the last few days have they had to make asses of themselves on national television?

      • Socialists

        This shit is pure 1950s style red-baiting. But I guess we should expect nothing less from the folks that brought these fuckers to campus.

        Yeah, you're right. "Socialists." Not only do they support immigrant rights, they also support self-determination for the PALESTINIANS. It's almost like they support ALL the oppressed people.

        And did you know they built the labor movement. And were key to the Civil Rights and Black Power movements. Not to mention the antiwar and other progressive movements throughout the 20th century.

        Those crazy bastards are against RACISM. Don't they know it's my right to blow all the brown people if I want to? Now they're making asses of themselves on national TV, saying that it isn't OK for us to go hunt down them "savages," er, I mean, illegals.

        Socialists. Say it again, it sounds pretty scary. Socialists. Damn, they probably opposed us liberating the I-raqis and shit.

        • if I could  

          go time travel to the 19th century, i'd find some way to disrupt the fucking labor movement so the fucking economy-killing pinko unions would never have been started.

          then i'd buy Union Pacific, Edison Electric, Coca-Cola, US Steel, Chase Manhattan, and Proctor and Gamble stock.

          then i'd time-travel back and enjoy my capitalistic gains

          Socialists.

          Fucking parasites.

        • to be perfectly  

          clear, i think they are all imbeciles regardless of their political affiliations. the fact that they're socialists and not umm how you say, normal people, merely amplifies my feelings.

        • actually  

          I have a little bit of a problem with the ISO, or a few ISO students, whatever, leading this protest or speaking for those that took the stage. Because in some sense I think it really has to be the people who are oppressed who speak out for themselves. Let the people whose families and communities are truely impacted by the Minutemen communicate their outrage. Clearly having allies and support is important for any movement, but I think you have to let the oppressed be their own voice. Having someone like Monique Dols be one of the loudest voices in support of this protest strikes me as really problematic.

          I'm a little sick of the ISO and other progressive causes taking credit/control in cases like this. The socialists were key to the battle for civil rights? Give me a fucking break.

        • Ron Lewenberg

          "This shit is pure 1950s style red-baiting. But I guess we should expect nothing less from the folks that brought these fuckers to campus."

          Such mature language. To think that you are claiming that we are the ones channeling a drunk.

          This is not "red baiting" for the simple fact that there are communists such as the ISO, ANSWER, and progressives for whatever.
          What is wrong with noting this? The protesters called the Minutemen fascists on the basis of members expelled from the group?
          Is it that you can't deal with someone responding to your libel by association with facts?
          Yelling "red baiting" is as despicable as claiming victimhood for being called on Nazi associations. Of course there are virtually no Nazis left, while communists still kill thousands daily.
          Is the blood of my family killed for being Jews any less red than that of members killed for being capitalists, for being Zionists, or for laughing when someone joked that Polish shoes were better than Soviet ones?


          "Yeah, you're right. "Socialists." Not only do they support immigrant rights, they also support self-determination for the PALESTINIANS. It's almost like they support ALL the oppressed people."

          You only support those oppressed people you like. The simple fact is that "self determination" is nationalism and has a racial or tribal aspect. Why should Americans not have such a right?

          Your desire to deconstruct America is apparent to high school drop outs, yet you seem to delude yourself.


          "And did you know they built the labor movement."
          Guilds existed for centuries before Marx started to spout democidal hate.

          True Labor leaders like Caesar Chavez or the IWW from the early 20th century opposed immigration because it drove down wages.
          Of course if you believe that the worse things are the better they will be once the new global proletariate revolts, why not destroy AMERICAN union jobs.

          "And were key to the Civil Rights and Black Power movements."

          The Civil Rights movement prospered when it called on Americans to live the values we espouse. The "Black Power" movement is no less regressive than the "white power" movement except that you lump all dark skinned people together as a new proletariate in need of a vanguard. If that isn't racism, what is?

          "Not to mention the antiwar and other progressive movements throughout the 20th century."

          You mean the movements that led to the deaths of millions at the hands of your paymasters?

          "Those crazy bastards are against RACISM. Don't they know it's my right to blow all the brown people if I want to?"
          Thank you for a moment of honesty. Most sane people already know that these people are cannon fodder for your revolution and that you feed on creating misery.


          "Now they're making asses of themselves on national TV, saying that it isn't OK for us to go hunt down them "savages," er, I mean, illegals."

          No, we want to deport criminals. It is no different than if I were to crash in your house without approval.

          "Socialists. Say it again, it sounds pretty scary. Socialists."
          Whether Scientific Socialism or National Socialism, the results are rather similar.

          "Damn, they probably opposed us liberating the I-raqis and shit."

          The irony is that many nationalsists opposed the Iraq war. But you wouldn't know a a New Rightist from a Neo-Conservative or a Paleoconservative from a Traditionalist.

  46. I bet you do

    When the Minutemen are harassing immigrants and day laborers, slashing water bottles on the border and trying to intimidate dudes looking for work in a Walgreen's parking lot, it doesn't matter to you right? You don't give a fuck. Hell, you think they DESERVE it don't you.

    The fact that the commies were involved in the protest just makes you hate those savages that much more, right?

    People like you are a fucking embaressment to humanity.

    Wait, let me guess, you go to the Columbia School of Business, right? Or maybe the Law School?

    • dude  

      If you're going to be calling people out so personally, the least you could do is give your name (not that I am any of those you were calling out). If you wouldn't say this shit to someone's face, you should have no business saying it here. This is why I hate the commenting on Bwog...

    • way to  

      make more baseless stereotypical assumptions. every time you post you're just digging yourself a deeper hole. the immigration debate does matter to me. but just because i support closing our physical borders does not give you the right to make broad sweeping assumptions about my background or education. No, I don't think violence is right, but guess what, both groups are clearly condoning it as a means of social change. if it were up to me, this wouldn't even be a debate because the choice reasonable, rational choice is so blatantly obvious. unfortunately it's not up to me: it's up to extremist morons like you to scream louder than everyone else. because, as everyone knows, in civilized society he who screams loudest is right. Chew on this as well: most of these socialists don't even believe in their "cause". it's just the cool thing to do as a college student -- way safer than rebelling my dropping acid, but clearly rebellious enough to garner national media attention.

  47. actually (again)  

    And don't even try to say I'm racist or conservative or crazy for disagreeing with you. The activist left is certainly broad enough for dissent.

  48. Columbian  

    How the f-k can people who died crossing the border speak for themselves if they are dead...

    Also the ISO took credit because the other groups which had involved members disaffiliated themselves. It is not like the ISO stole credit from other groups who were competing for it.

    • read it again  

      "Let the people whose families and communities are truely impacted by the Minutemen communicate their outrage."

      • ummm

        "Let the people whose families and communities are truely impacted by the Minutemen communicate their outrage."

        They have and they do on a regular basis. And when people marched in the millions across the country this spring, Bill O'Reilly and Lou Dobbs went after them as well

  49. by the way

    "The socialists were key to the battle for civil rights? Give me a fucking break."

    By the way, you can say "Give me a break" all you want, but it's true. You should do some reading on the subject. I would start with Robin Kelley's "Hammer and Hoe: Alabama Communists in the Great Depression."

  50. Wake up

    I'm a libertarian who very strongly supports liberalization of immigration. I would love to be involved in a protest to draw attention to the hypocrisy of both parties in Congress supporting the construction of the wall and the immigration issue in general. I'm sure there are plenty of people all over the political spectrum who feel strongly on this issue since it's really not bound by ideology. Yet the issue gets politicized when groups like the ISO tie other issues into it, which turns anyone off who isn't aligned with the far left.

    I disagree with almost everything socialists espouse, but I would gladly collaborate with them any any other group to bring attention to this issue if the event didn't get dragged down into ideological struggles. Is anyone willing to organize an event advocating for immigrants' rights and liberalized immigration policy on the basis that these are human beings coming here to work and contribute to the country in the way that every other wave of immigration has?

    Such an event would attract a much larger crowd of supporters and wouldn't be able to be dismissed as the action of the far left. I'm disappointed in the general apathy towards this issue at Columbia, and that it has taken so long for any student groups to take it on.

  51. I still dont

    understand why people are avoiding the real issue surrounding illegal immigration. The socialist, ISO, whomever or what moniker you want to apply to the groups protesting in favor of the illegal immigration always tend to put the blame, or focus the blame on the United States, its policies towards illegal immigrants, yet, fail to blame the home countries of these people who choose to come here risking life and limb.

    They have to leave their families and their lives behind because of the neglectful economic poliicies of their home countries. This is not limiting the debate to Mexico, but, having lived there I know the inefficiencies of the government and the unwillingness of the people to institute any serious change.

    There the focus and blame is levied on the United States, and groups like the Chicano Caucus and to some extent the Socialist, also put the blame squarely on the United States. The fact of the matter is that it is the policies of the countries where the people come from which is responsible for illegal immigration. The protests that these people who truly care about those traversiing the desert to come here illegally should be focused on those governments to get them do something to keep their people in their homes with their families, as most would prefer.

    Before making the US the scapegoat and focusing the blame on people who think that illegal immigration is a very important issue here, one that needs to be addressed by Congress more than it is, they should look at the true root cause.

  52. just real quick  

    Skimmed some of the comments.. and wanted to just put this out there.... I protested and while I am a liberal I don't consider myself an extremist and until now have never been reffered to as one.... Furthermore, my idead on immigration differ from a great deal of what I have been hearing from say ISO.... I think the issue of the minutemen just comes down to human rights.. which is not a matter of left and right in my opinion... or if it is, it shouldn't be. Human beings shouldn't be murdered or villified the way ilegal immigrants are by the minutemen.

  53. mat  

    can't we all just get along?

  54. Score

    I have been reading the comments and it sounds to me that "the left" isn't interested in supressing free speech but are rather engaging it.

  55. Go Ron!

    The radical left only cares about oppression when the oppressed in question are hispanics or blacks. The left expresses no outrage at the oppression of Christians and Jews in the Arab world, or the oppression of white settlers in Zimbabwe. The reason is simple: if the oppressed in question are white, the oppression doesn't count. Thus, the radical left apply a racist criterion for deeming who and who is not oppressed. Even their criterion of racism is racist: that is, the only racism worthy of outrage according to the radical left is racism against blacks and hispanics. Racism against Jews or whites doesn't count, indeed the lack of leftist outrage suggests that liberals think racism against Jews or whites is perfectly acceptable.

    Of course, the leftists have become at least a little more "open-minded" in their criticism of oppression in the world, for they now include Muslims in their set of valid victims of racism. This is why the protest banner had "no one is illegal" in Arabic.

  56. Go Ron! Postscript

    And, it says a lot about liberals that they feel compelled to defend the adherents of such a barbaric and intolerant ideology as Islam, which is not a religion, but a cult of death, destruction, and oppression.

    • disgusted  

      why has the blog become a haven for the postings of neo-nazis?

      "Islam, which is not a religion, but a cult of death, destruction, and oppression" - man, this is just dissappointing. Can't we have some semblance of a reasoned debate? Let's start talking about the fact that peaceful protesters were violently attacked by these thugs.

  57. David  

    I don't want to try to take on the whole Stewart-style free-associative rants about the left by Ron and his fan, but one point:
    "Caesar Chavez or the IWW from the early 20th century opposed immigration because it drove down wages."
    Exactly wrong on the IWW. By contrast to the totally ineffective segregated AFL, the IWW wanted to unite all the workers of the *world* (thus the name).
    http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~epf/1999/choi.html

    And Chavez wasn't opposed to immigration, he just used the INS against strikebreakers and scabs. Unprincipled, but not nativist.

    • Anonymous

      "I don't want to try to take on the whole Stewart-style free-associative rants about the left by Ron and his fan,"

      If you will note, I was responding point-by point to "Socialists" in 86.

      I concede that I mispoke about the IWW. Actually, I should have noted that the Wobblies were pretty much the only union to want to drive down wages in order to create socialism.


      "And Chavez wasn't opposed to immigration, he just used the INS against strikebreakers and scabs. Unprincipled, but not nativist."


      Unprincipled? No his principle was supporting his union and members, not some imagined racial or social movement pursued by communists.

  58. Shut up, disgusted!

    These are not the views of a neo-nazi. You are ignorant. Neo-nazis are anti-Semitic. And if you want evidence that Islam is a violent religion, you need look no further than the Koran, which I'm sure you've never read.

    And no, the protestors were not peaceful. Disgusted, you lie.

  59. David  

    Oh, one more thing re 106, not for the piece of shit but for the people who think I was too mean. Note the shift from '"college students" think socialism is cool' to '"you guys" - ie socialists - think socialism is cool'. And this guy calls me moron?

  60. soooo  

    ... you're like a neo-Nazi, only you hate Muslims not Jews. Glad we got that cleared up.

  61. Soo, you are a moron

    Yes I hate Muslims, and reasonable person would. Why is this a crime? Look at how they treat their women, look at how backwards their schools are! Look at how they treat homosexuals! Look at the practice of honor killings! Look at how intolerant they are of the selfsame liberal beliefs that you so cherish!! Wake up, man.

    • Anonymous

      Said is laughing at you - these are exactly the kind of uninformed, Orientalist views and analyses of Islam, that serve only reaction and anti-intellectualism. You generalize about 1 billion people (that identify as Muslim), in over a dozen nations, and hundreds of sects - to you, Islam is a monolithic and static thing (that is an easy scapegoat), but to history, Islam is something multicultured, and ever-changing.

      Now, ask yourself again, who is really being silenced at Columbia?

  62. AAAAAA

    National Socialism and International Socialism having miserably failed in a gigantic bloodbath, there is something unsavory about having socialistic remnants still combating free speech (i.e. the minutemens') as well as the right of people to dispose of themselves (how many americans oppose securing the borders?).
    These people have no shame, they're converting to islam, the new fashionable avatar of imperial martyrocratic intolerance, as we speak.

  63. Persecuting Dissent

    Columbia is no longer a univeristy. A University that does not tolerate a mulitiplicity of views is not a university. It is a monolith enforcing its one official view and policing and punishing those who dissent from it. Even the merest disagreement is dissent, and dissent qualifies as a thought-crime. This is why the protestors called the Minutemen "illegitimate" and "unwelcome" ad nauseum.

    When dissent is illegitimate, it is a short step to think that the dissenter illegitmate. And from there, it is another short step to think that the dissenter ought to be shot. This, my friends, is the road to the gulag.

  64. Shane

    All of you reconquista, chicano-caucus, aztlan racists can bring it on, anytime. We kicked your asses out of the southwest before (check your history books) and we'll do it again. If you want to be IN America, you'd better have allegiance TO America! That includes our laws...got it?

    You forsake your native country's system, laws and culture and you assimilate to Americanism. That's how my ancestors did it when we came to America, and you ARE NOT special.

    You want another Mexican-American war? Name the day. Declare war and it will be measured out to you.

    • disgusted  

      at the comments posted by Shane.... nobody has been talking about the reconquista... in fact, it's ridiculous that you brought it up. Your'e comments just reveal your ignorance. Read the Minutemen website? Of course they would say they aren't racist... it's THEIR website.. why don't you further search and really find out who the minutemen are... It's great to see how easily people fall for this pseudo patriotism.... You say the Hispanic Community doesn't love America? I am Latina. My parents came to this country and are probably more patriotic than this hateful exclusionist "patriotism" ur confusing for actual appreciation for one's country.

      Were you even at the event? No body said the N word at any point in time..stop relying on the conservatively biased media to formulate your opinon.

      On another note, I am bothered by how polarized this all is... is human rights some "CRAAAAZY" liberal thing? I was under the impression conservatives were compassionate too

      • "I am Latina"

        "I am Latina." That's exactly the problem, you're first instinct is to define your indentity by your race. You are a racist. I, on the other hand, am an American and a Westerner. If you want to be Latina first, go back to Latin America, we don't need ingrates like you.

  65. Shane

    Furthermore, the dumb latino bimbo and the moron in the striped shirt that were interviewed following the student-initiated, racially-motivated riot are a perfect example of the kind of intellectually-bankrupt dolts that fill up much of our so-called institutes of "higher-learning" these days.

    Just throw out the race card anytime someone unwraps your burrito and you think that gives you some sort of ammo. How lame.

    You don't even know what you're talking about. YOU are the racists! It wasn't the Minutemen calling Marvin Stewart the "N" word that day. And it's not the Minuteman Project who base their entire existence on their ethnicity. It's YOU.

    The Minutemen (since you are obviously too stupid to read and comprehend the Minuteman website for yourselves) are comprised of MANY different ethnic groups, INCLUDING many from the Hispanic community.

    The fact that you don't understand that, simply magnifies your lack of credibility and highlights your ignorance.

    The difference between LaRaza and the other sick organizations I mentioned in my previous post are that the hispanics in the Minuteman Project understand the rule of law, and LOVE our country.

    You love Mexico so much? You have such pride and loyalty to your country...then why are you HERE?

  66. Patrick, shut up!

    You are a moron. Read the Koran, read about the crusades, and then let's talk. Oh yeah, and Said was a charlatan who criticized the Enlightenment, the very phenomenon that his criticism possible. Grow you, you little pseudo-intellectual, and stop thinking that subversion is a mark of sophisticatino.

  67. sorry for the typos

    You are a moron. Read the Koran, read about the crusades, and then let's talk. Oh yeah, and Said was a charlatan who criticized the Enlightenment, the very phenomenon that made his criticism possible. Grow up you, you little pseudo-intellectual, and stop thinking that subversion is a mark of sophistication.

    And, while I'm at it, if you think Islam is so good, why don't you convert, you bastard. Then you'll see what Islam is like. It's a primitive ideology, to call it a religion would be to overestimate it. I bet you didn't know that apostates are supposed to be killed according to Koranic law. I'd like to see your mother in a burka.

  68. Apparently

    When Chris Kulawik booked Gilchrist he also brought along his neo-Nazi friends...

  69. Shane

    I *am* a Minuteman! I know who they are because I am one of them.

    I am married to a Mexican woman (and have been for over 10 years thank you) and have been to my share of family reunions and get-togethers. So before you start defending your anti-American socio-communist/marxist vomit, try someone else.

    I stand up for LEGAL citizens of the United States, not vagrant tramps and drifters like the Aztlan/Chicano Caucus/Reconquista/LaRaza movements represent.

    The reason this country has survived to become the superpower and by the way-the most compassionate and generous country in the history of humanity, is in- part, due to her respect for LAW. Our collective recognition of providence and liberty. Not because we provide felony lawbreakers and (a.k.a.-criminals) with asylum and the equal rights of law-abiding citizens.

    The U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights are NOT suicide pacts. America WILL NOT survive if we continue to let every Jose, Maria Enrigue, and Juanita who crosses the border (and breaks Federal Law by doing so) to stay and suck our economy, our public schools, our hospitals and OUR culture dry.

    It's real simple, babe.

    You are an American, or you're not.
    And how you got here is 100% relevant. If we turn our heads and decide to ignore the influx of ILLEGAL residents, then we have to stop being Americans and just resign ourselves to the cesspool of the third world country we will inevitably become.

    Then everyone WILL be equal...

    equally miserable.

  70. WeNEEDMore

    Brilliant, son. We need to hear more. Please. We need some more o' that brilliant minutemen wisdom. Long live free speech! Go ahead American white boy, you tell 'em.

    • Shane

      See, that's what I mean when I talk about your public school education. You know nothing.

      A person tells a bunch of ungrateful, clearly racist groups of people (and in a UNfavorable manner, equates them to the KKK) to go live in the place they claim that they are SO proud of and SO devoted to, and *I'm* being a racist?

      How exactly does that make me a racist? You don't even know what you're saying. God, it's like talking to a wall or a lamp (a burned out lamp at that).

      And again, with the "American white boy" garbage. You know, it's funny...when a black man or any other non-white ethnic group proclaims their "Black Pride" or "Brown Pride" or whatever-pride, we're just supposed to understand and support them. But IF someone were to say they are proud of their caucasian heritage, they would automatically be deemed a racist, bigot, or a nazi. Why is that I wonder?

      The point really, is that the Minutemen have blacks, whites, asians, and YES, many Hispanics in the organization. Something that NONE of the groups that I mentioned (KKK, Black Panthers, LaRaza, etc.) would allow.

      So why is it that you morons who keep speaking out of your ass and defending this invading force from the south refer to the Minutemen as the racists?

      It's absolutely academic. You're certifiably insane. How else can you look at it? Here, let me make a clear-cut, grade school-level example that hopefully, you can actually comprehend...

      LaRaza (The Race), Reconquista, Chicano-Caucus, Aztlan, KKK, Black Panthers-ARE ALL EXCLUSIVE, RACIST ORGANIZATIONS THAT BASE THEIR PHILOSOPHY AND WORLDVIEW ON ETHNIC SUPERIORITY AND EXCLUSIVITY (I know that's a big word for you college students at Columbia, but try to understand it anyway). Furthermore, THEY ALSO TRY TO PUSH THEIR (failed)MARXIST IDEOLOGY ON THE MOST TRIUMPHANT MODEL OF ECONOMIC SUCCESS THAT THE WORLD HAS EVER KNOWN.

      on the other hand...

      The Minutemen-ARE OPEN TO ALL RACES (check out their membership sometime), AND BASE THEIR PHILOSOPHY AND WORLDVIEW ON THE FOUNDING PRINCIPLES OF THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND ON THE IDEA THAT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE, WORK, PAY TAXES AND RAISE THEIR FAMILIES IN THIS COUNTRY (OUR Country), DESERVE TO BE PROTECTED FROM A FLOOD OF ILLEGAL ALIENS THAT ARE CRIPPLING OUR SCHOOLS, HOSPITALS, JOB MARKET AND OUR UNIQUELY AMERICAN CULTURE.

      Does that help? If not, then there's no help for you. Please go smoke another blunt and pass out somewhere and leave the rest of us productive and intelligent citizens to debate the issues.

      Thanks! :)

  71. yes, we do

    "white boy"? You're a damn racist. Go back to the little rock you crawled out from.

  72. Duh

    And the very long post right on top of that is not? What is your point?

  73. slayer

    Monique Dols is a *itch. I would love to bitch slap her. An arrogrant *itch and so are her parents if they condone her actions. How shameful. I saw her smirky face on Fox the other night laughing and caring on like a spoiled brat. Wonder what she was smoking. Pot maybe.

  74. Gipper

    Monique Dols is a narcissistic, condescending, smarmy little cunt. It's too bad she didn't get punched in the face when she rushed the stage. She'd look better with a black eye.


    It's funny that she's too fucking stupid to see what an ass she's making of herself on TV. Normal people are not listening to her commie propaganda but rather just saying to themseles "now that is one dumb bitch!"

  75. Amy

    this link was posted in a racist forum so that's why you have lots of angry people here..

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