315 CommentsUnivision’s clip, until now withheld by the network, has recently become availible, and it’s a doozy. You don’t have to speak the Spanish for footage of Minutemen kicking protesters to change how you look at things.
Here’s the other half of the video. If you are so inclined, a petition in support of the protesters is availible here.
Added Sunday morning: A quick transcript of the videos into English after the jump.
Update 2:10 PM: A few stills from the video after the jump.
Update Monday 1:00 AM: We found the missing comments! They’ve been added at the beginning of the thread.
Also, we apologize to those who commented on this post between 2:11 and 9:30 AM this morning. We messed up while updating the post, leading to the accidental deletion of the 60+ entry comment thread. We’re not censoring, we promise.
Univision transcript
Announcer: The founder of the hunters of undocumented immigrants called the Minutemen was speaking at a university in
Female newscaster: The people were having what was going to be a peaceful exchange of ideas. The fight was body to body, students, security guards and the Minutemen in
“We were expecting protests from the very beginning… (end part I)
Part II
“…but we were not expecting the chaos that ensued. We’re feel very disappointed and ashamed of that organizer.”
“I was one of the protesters but not one of the ones that took the stage. They kicked everyone out.”
The Minutemen were controversial from the start. Their allegations that there are not just 12 but 30 million illegal immigrants in the
And the excited [students] continue the heat, they call the students who support the minutemen ‘racist’ and say that war had been declared since the moment when they knew that Jim Gilchrist was going to speak. Because of this students and protesters were protesting outside of the institution. “They want to divide the workers. They want to divide the whole world by race and culture, and they don’t appreciate the diversity of this American town.”
Announcer: The administration of
Yup, that’s a Minuteman kicking someone.
Here, the guy with the ponytail appears to be pushing Columbia Associate Vice President for Public Safety Jim McShane in the back. Guess he doesn’t hold grudges.
Bwog wasn’t able to find the alleged picture of Chris Kulawik kicking someone, but he does appear to be looking on.
From other parts of the video, it appears that the black shirted guy below is “Scott” from the CTV video (who called the protesters “animals,” and noted that “no conservative would ever act how we have just seen the democratic liberals act, charging the stage, throwing punches, kicking people. tackling a student.”)
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315 Comments
@vanderbilt All of you Liberal-ProIllegal Alien-Wacko Left-income redistribution-Columbia students do not deserve the right to vote. You think like propaganda sheep. Your actions and blather do not even hold water as to what is wrong or what is right about people illegally in the country. I will give you hint, there is nothing right about people in the country illegally.
I have been to the border in Yuma, Arizona and Big Bend National Park, Texas and let me tell you the disgusting mess these people leave behind who think that it is their right to come into my country illegally. Where are all of the fanatic environmentalists on the issue of these people leaving behind everything that is imaginable?
None of you Liberel-ProIllegal Alien-Wacko Left-income redistribution-Columbia students have anything to say about what is wrong with illegal aliens invading the country other than, “These poor people want a better life”. Well how about a legal taxpaying American citizen? I have to pay taxes so these leeches can have a better life in their country.
What the Minutemen are doing is what the government of this country is supposed to do, protect the borders, (Article I, Section 8, Clause 15.) Instead your government does nothing but a dog and pony show that they are doing something at the borders. The most basic function of any government is to protect its people; having 12 million people illegally in this country is not protecting the people!
What you Liberal-ProIllegal Alien-Wacko Left-income redistribution-Columbia students should be doing is questioning why the Hispanic people of this country have a racists organization, La Raza, (The Race) representing the Spanish speaking people in this country; both legal and Illegal? Was there not an organization that represented a race at one time, the Aryan Race? So now we see that La Raza is representing the Hispanic race. La Raza received 15 million dollars in government grants for the fiscal year 2003 – 2004, why aren’t you Liberal-ProIllegal Alien-Wacko Left-income redistribution Columbia students questioning that? Where was La Raza, (The Race) when Officer Rodney Johnson was murdered by an illegal alien? Better yet where is La Raza, (The Race) when over 3000 people have been murdered in this country.
The Liberal-ProIllegal Alien-Wacko Left-income redistribution-Columbia students answer this basic question. Ninety percent of crimes committed in this country are committed for economical gain. La Raza, (The Race) and others claim that these people are coming in this country illegally to work so they can support their families at back home, in essence to make money; is that not a crime for economic gain?
I have had enough of illegal aliens in this country telling me I should let them stay even though they did not respect the laws of this country or the sovereignty of this nation and so should all legal taxpaying citizens of this country, that includes the low life-blood-sucking-proillegal alien-politicians.
@AAAAAA Supporting borders? How racist of them.
@Norma I think all of you Columbia students who protested against the Minutemen should all go to the fields and pick lettuce for a while. Maybe it would clear your heads and you could gain some common sense.
@Anonymous Here’s the problem. Security did not step in. Technically, under New York law, rushing a stage is a “mob action” and could be prosecuted as such. Since security did not break up the “mob action” it would likely be determined that any violent action on the part of the minutemen would be deemed self defense. I’m just grateful no one died. Have the entrance requirements for Columbia really gone down?
@where What second mark in the video can you see the guy charging Kulawik?
@i just noticed it he was going right towards the stage/stairs trying to get up
@Freakonomics We should let the free market of deas do its magic. The man gave his speech and the audience reacted. What is the problem with that? If the man would have had someting nice so say, they would have clapped. That is why you have to be careful with what you say. Am I missing something. Do I pass?
@a university sponsored restricted speaking event is not the free market. next please.
@OMG COMMUNIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
@Gregor Freakonomics …
Yes, you’re missing something. How about the FACTS. He was NOT allowed to give his speech. He was introduced and they rushed the stage. Don’t rely on liberals to give you facts. They only deal with lies. Google Monique Bols. She is a socialist American hating, Hezbollah and Hamas supporter. She’s the liberal hero.
@I know Peter Parker
@Who's the kid in gray running at Kulawik, full speed, his head down?
@he's def charging the stage
@le sigh LOLZ YUR AN IDIOT
OMG U RACIST
WUT WUT
@Migrants #228, new york is number 4 in terms of undocumented immigration. there is plenty of it. Where have you been? Oh, I forget, Columbia… Landlords like it, employers like it, and consumers like it. I do not mind them at all but much rather they have full legal rights so they are not blatantly exploited and can earn a decent living to support their families and children. Just like everyone else.
@so thats your answer, give all the republican states to mexico, or have them seceed, etc. So youd be left with basically a Socialist state based on both coasts, kudos.
I doubt if that would solve the problems faced by illegal immigration. And, for your information Im from Southern California, so I do know about the problem that illegal immigration poses. My parents have a home across the street from a house that illegal immigrants live in. They are nice people and are open about their situation. They have six kids, who all go to public schools, four of which require special teachers teach them in spanish. The state pays approx. $6,000 a kid for them to go to school. I would tend to doubt they are contributing $36,000 a year back in income tax, certainly dont pay property tax, therefore, you can see the problem with Illegal immigration.
Again, this can not be all put onto those coming here illegallly, the crux of the blame has to head down south to the Mexican government for not doing enough to keep them there, for not providing an economy that would allow them to suceed. But then again why should they when they know that those whom are left out of any economic success there can always come up here.
Oh by the way, the guy or girl who keeps saying KKKulawik, you exposed yourself for who you are with your final comment.
@GoCali My thoughts exactly. Give all the republican states to Mexico and have them figure it out and leave us alone! The map would look way cool…
@even better why don’t we just execute all those w/unsavory ideas or views?
@KKKulawik I don’t know this idiot and I don’t ever want to know him. Based on his actions, what I have seen and read, and the company he keeps the kid is total and absolute publicity seeking lowlife scumbag. And he looks like one too. My opinion and not subject to debate. Sorry. If you are his friend, you are also likely a lowlife scumbag yourself.
@can you imagine having an intelligent conversation here!! With regards to your desire to see more intellectually based speakers, the Santorums and Ashcrofts that come here allow for the intellectuals as well to come. Its a balance and that balance is what is needed. We need to hear from all sides of the spectrum, all sides of the powerful and the intellectual community in order for people to make an educated choice.
the thing with the Minutemen is there is a lot of disinformation out there. and, unless you live in California or the Southwest, you cant really understand the whole “illegal immigration” problem because you dont see its real life consequences. By having them here people could have heard them and then determined whether their opinion/actions were acceptable, deplorable, right or wrong.
This wasnt allowed and therefore how could one make a determination. Instead we got chaos.
@Flapjack Slim Good to know you’re out there, my (worthy) sworn enemy. Unfortunately I’m starving, and have several chapters of Marx, Fanon and umm, Kristol to read before tomorrow. Til we meet again… oh and give that troll a pat on the back for me at the next club meeting.
@Californian Im from California, not a huge fan of illegal immigration, but Im also not a fan of the minutemen. Could you people from the middle of the country please do us a favor and stop f’ing telling us how to solve all of our problems. We couldve fixed the immigration issue long ago but conservatives and liberals from the middle of nowhere keep interfering, same thing goes for terrorism, thanks a lot Bob and JoAnn from Iowa, but I think we can figure sht out on our own and we dont need people in Ohio to be passing laws to “protect” coastal cities when everyone on the coast is against them!
@did you think this gibberish through before you typed it? how would the coasts have solved immigration long aso? what significance does the ‘middle of nowhere’ have in terms of political terms. What exactly would you define as the middle of nowhere? As for ohio, it actually shares a water border w/canada, so its actually a boundary state. i don’t think you wrote a single sensible satement in there.
@Flapjack im sorry I do disagree with you, not every speaker needs to be a “shining light of intellectualism” We also need to be exposed to the leaders of our day, hear what they have to say and try to understand where they are basing the decisions that affect our lives every day.
We need to also be exposed to the real world and what transpires in it, therefore we do need to bring in speakers like a Clinton and a Pelosi.
Now heres the point, the entire point of what transpired. As much as I dislike Hillary’s positions, and despise Nancy Pelosi I have ABSOLUTELY no right to interupt their speeches by rushing the stage or jumping up on stage with banners. Asking a question during the Q & A session and exposing their poliices is the best way to counter them. Also, I might actually learn something about them from what they say which will help me to counter them in the real world.
As for speakers are you saying that we shouldnt have Santorum here? What about Rumsfeld or even Bush himself in the spring? would you be opposed to these events?
@Flapjack Slim Oh man please don’t turn out to be the same person as “i get it” and “wow” because I’m really starting to feel like having a worthwhile conversation. First off, I agree with you about the validity of learning to counter our “real world” enemies. Point well taken. Santorum, Rumsfeld or Bush would be logical choices, also, for the same reason; although I’d prefer more intelligent voices, their positions of power make their perspectives utterly relevant both to their supporters and their opponents. If Santorum came, I can’t promise I’d refrain from “frothy mix” jokes, but I would make them out on 116th–and then hear him out.
@not every speaker has to be shining example of conservative intellectualism, I mean, please, the Dems had Nancy Pelosi here, are you going to tell me shes a shining example of anything.
The fact is the man was a Governor, Senator, Attn General, that makes him quite a good choice to speak on the issues that he spoke on. Also being att Gen at the time of the 9/11 attacks made him qualified to talk on Security, which was what the speech was about.
@Flapjack Slim No, I actually believe that every speaker should be a shining example of intellectualism. I am not a Democrat, and I certainly could give a fuck about Pelosi. On this we agree.
@What on earth was wrong with the Ashcroft event. It was well done, he represented himself well and questions were asked from all sides of the political spectrum, and answered. How does that not add to the intellectual discourse on campus?
@Flapjack Slim No, no, I absolutely agree–the event was entertaining and handled well. I just thought that he was also a weak choice–although not nearly on the level of the Minutemen–due to the fact that he was no longer in office, and, although witty and an able speaker, is not really a shining example of conservative intellectualism.
@he was attorney general. during a war. he argued soem of the most significant cases of our generation. yeah sure. he was an intellectual lightweight. not all conervatism has to do w/neo and paleo cons who talk only about foreign policy theories.
@i get it now i realize why you picked those three flapjack (i was really wondering about ornstein, who is a really a lightweight whose most significant work has come in campaign finance reform). you’re one of those colbert/stewart/air america listeners right who think the guys they have on there are the only intellectual conservatives. sorry bud. i’ve figured you out. what a veiled world you live in
@Flapjack Slim I can keep naming conservatives I find intelligent if it makes you feel better… My point was simply that Gilchrist is not one of them. Not by a long shot. And I question any group who would sacrifice their own intellectual credibility by granting a platform to such a clown.
@FreeSpeech? If Columbia really cared about free speech they would give an adequate forum to all of those people in Harlem that oppose the expansion or to those black “Israelites” that stand on 125th…But, no. Free speech only applies to right wing provocateur groups and we need to provide a sanctioned platform to hatemongers and neo-nazis. What a bunch of racist hypocrites!
@NoOriginality #206–you proved your inferiority and lack of original thinking. I bet you are one of those kids that plagiarizes your papers also. Are you a Columbia student? Maybe you should transfer to Pace and perhaps help the IQ go up in both places…I’m done with you, fool…
@haha yeah after your formulaic response posts. lets see. combined word summary for the title. then ad hom in terms of personal ability. then reference to cu student. then claim of intellectual superiority and decision to take your ball and go home. yes. you are certainly the master intellect in this campus.
@Incite The only thing that incited this mess was when the protestors stormed the stage, or have you forgotten that detail. They had no right to be on the stage, it was not their event, they were not part of the organizaiton and therefore had no right to go up there. Please also remember it was not just people unfurling banners, it was the 20 or so people who charged the stage.
The people who perpetrated that would have had their opportunity to refute any policy of the minutemen during the Q & A session but they chose to do otherwise. How does this make Kulawik wrong, or indicate that he incited anything?
@Flapjack Slim I fully concur that those who rushed the stage after the banner was unfurled acted irresponsibly, if only because they allowed Fox News to get the jump on the rest of the media, and spin the situation out of control. My condemnation of Kulawik stems from the self-serving nature of his machinations… there are many conservative thinkers whose opinions I find valid and stimulating; I may disagree with you vehemently, but I respect intelligence. What Kulawik has done is ignore the brilliant minds that conservatism has to offer–Buckley, Ornstein, Frum, the list goes on–and instead decided to showcase the ignorant buffoons that besmirch the movement he claims to honor. Ashcroft was bad enough, but the Minutemen have absolutely no intellectual or experiential knowledge to impart other than their boring religiousity and smug ethnic elitism. If Kulawik were serious about engaging in debate, he would never have stooped so low.
@yeah. lets have you. someone who hates conservatives pick out which conservative speakers are worth to hear. arrogant prick
@Flapjack Slim You know what I love most about you? How easily you prove me right. Do you even know the conservative thinkers I mentioned? Probably not, based on your asinine response. I don’t expect you to be as educated about my movement and position as I am about yours, however, I did assume you would know as much about the conservative sphere as I do… evidently not. Read for a while, and then give talking another try.
@wow more elitism. only you know the conservatives who are worthy and i obviously don’t even know myself. i’m just a dumb hick who gets fed ann coulter all day. good job only cementing the arrogant elitist stereotype. by the way, buckley has been critical and opposed to bush so it—frum has actually been scheduled to come here by teh cpu and repubs..so learn somethng before you post
@Flapjack Slim Learn to spell before you post. I can hardly understand the “points” you are trying to make. And since when is criticizing Bush anti-conservative? Conservatives can only exist within the boundaries defined by the White House? Glad to hear that my suggestions have already taken effect–I will attend Frum’s speech and listen carefully, rest assured.
@YouAreGone #200, I can curse too. You sound real smart, kid. Must be some CU republican with his little head deep inside that elephants ass…
@haha. yeah you fellas really demonstrated on wednesday that your heads aren’t already 2 feet up the donkey’s anus
@Anonymous why does this have anything to do with the Democrats? or the greater Columbia population for that matter.
@IRS you just got me with that, I join you in not liking them! :)
I apologize I thought the reference to the film you mentioned was a book.
And with regards to 08 youre are correct, I should have said in a perfect world, or considering those who are said to have been considering a run at the Presidency. I think that would have been clearer.
And because the ISO is radical it does not marginalize their views, I just personally find them to be not only wrong, but dangerous. This is my opinion. They are entitled to believe whatever they like, but I have had encounters with them, and they incite violence to further their own goals. This is from personal experience.
@though o/t... ISO’s paper on 9/11 (clearly written very soon afterwards):
http://www.marxists.de/war/wtc/swussupp.htm
@Can I ask you the person who keeps writing KKK do you know Chris? Why do you keep spelling his name with three K;s are you trying to insinuate that hes a racist, that he would advocate the actions of the KKK, the he empathizes with them? What are you saying?
And if you are saying just that, then can I ask how you know that? Do you know him personally? Do you have access to his personal writings or his schedule, or have evidence that shows that he is a member of this group or advocates their policies?
If not, then you have no basis to use such an inflamitory term or acronym with his name.
@Flapjack Slim quite right. kulawik is not a klansman, he’s an asshole. believe it or not, there is a difference. he is also a shameless liar who lost any shred of credibility when he failed to condemn the thugs he paid to incite this mess. the truth always comes out in the end; may it bite kulawik and his pathetic, cowardly supporters in the ass.
@hey flapjack go back to applying id patches to conservatives so that you don’t have to associate w/them in real life
@DigYourselfIn Evidently he did a very good job at managing the event with security and making sure his friends kick landed right in the face of a fellow student, right?
Listen to yourself.
@hah yeah. cause a bunch of fucking animals decided to break thgouht barricades and rush the stage. those animals did a good job showing they should have any legitimate reason to ever enter such an event or ever spend another minute without being heckled agian right?
@FooledCUrepublicans You’all invited a bunch of KKK\Neo-Nazis to “speak” on campus and now do not even want to come to terms with the fact that they incited a riot and left with NAZI salutes. The company you keep. And you thought they were sheep. I am sure Columbia Republikkkans feel like idiots now that you were had and used by the minutemen.
@tool communist Everyday we be burnin not concernin what nobody wanna say.
We be earnin dollars turning cause we mind de pon we pay.
Worth more than gold and oil and diamonds girls we need dem everyday.
Recognize it, Pimpin as we riding.
@you are a stupid bumblefuck only hurtign your side at this point
@YouWantCursing? Listen, you little prickhead #188, KKKulawik is not security and had nothing to do with security on stage. In fact his organization falied at thinking through the event and providing adequate security. He is a little wimp and would not have been able to defend anyone. He was on stage to encourage violence by his facists guests and because he loves to hurt people and incite a riot and the publicity that it generates for him and his friends. That is the behavior of a coward and a wimp.
@ha.. not only did kulawik introduce the speakers but he was managing the event w/security.. but you’re right–i mean if you say something it becomes true right–good luck w/that
@Im not calling you anything, if you call yourself a conservative-libertarian well I take you at your word, but wonder if thats the case, who you would like to see win the next Presidential election. Its a question, not an indictment.
The ISO is a radical group. Its plain and simple,
With regards to that book from Freedom to Fascism, that word has been thrown around a lot here. The United States is far from faciscm, freedoms have not been surpressed and were not living in a police state, so I hope that you were not insinuating that, though I dont think you were.
@Back How can I decide who I would vote for in the next presidential election if the candidates haven’t been decided. Much of my decision would depend on who the Republicans nominate. Most of my life I’ve supported the Republicans, although in 2004 (first election I could vote for), I voted for Michael Badnarik of the Libertarian party.
In your opinion does the fact that the ISO is a radical group invalidate their opinions?
I have yet to read any book entitled Freedom to Fascism, I was referring to a film directed by Aaron Russo. The word ‘fascism’ has been thrown around a lot here lately, sadly mostly by misguided conservatives who would rather take the Bill O’Reilly route and use language carelessly with the hope of tarnishing their opponents, instead of debating the actual issues. I do not think the US is fascist, although I do think as of now, the confluence of neoconservative and anti-free-market Democrats is pushing it in that direction. The film uses the word ‘fascism’ in the traditional historical socio-political sense. Meaning they are mostly referring to a rise in authoritarianism (primarily the use of terrorism as an excuse to curb freedoms, along with the increase in citizen-monitoring capabilities of the state), corporatism (particularly the influential role the Federal Reserve and IRS play in American government) and the effects of globalization.
@the shoebat event will go as planned and will begin at 8pm on wednesday in the main room in lerner. gates will open at 7. i believe rsvp is suggested and i think there will be posters up around campus indicating how one can do so. otherwise cuid students can come to the event w/out rsvp but won’t be guaranteed seating if there are too many people. The shoebat even will have three speakers, including two ex-islmaic terrorists and one former neo-nazi.
@PonyTailThug He should definitively be identified and arrested for assault. And it is obvious that Chris Kulawik is standing next to him, fists clenched, and not really trying to prevent this thug from kicking a fellow student, was he? Au contraire, Kulawik is right there and doing absolutely NOTHING to prevent any violence from his guests who then go on to give a NAZI salute goodbye…This kid is going to be expelled for inciting a riot, right? I mean, what was HE doing on stage?
@are you fucking joking idiot? kulawik was the guy who introduced speakers and was there w/them when it appeared as though the protestors were storming the stage towrads him. HE obviously felt in danger because he was in a defensive stance. If you idiotic animals hadn’t broken through the barracade, stormed the stage and at certain points made it look like you were going to engage in an all out attack he wouldn’t have to worry about his ssafety.
You are the disgusting animals who deserved to be suspended.
@nazi salute yeah right. the only ones giving nazi salutes were the protestors during teh speech.
@im no expert but im pretty sure that nazi salutes do not include clenched fists.
in sec 42 however i see arms up and palms open. doesnt look like much of a wave to me.
@are you stupid again. this was during the event earlier.
and you’re an idiot. try waving your arm to say goodbye you’ll see your raise you arm and wave your open palmed hand…not to mention that it also looks like a signal to go back
@also the woman behind is also giving a lets go symbol where her arm is perpendicular to her shoudler. hard to argue it was a nazi salute
@Insane Insane Insane Bill O’Reily is completely out of line. Avi let us down. Why did he allow himself to be brow-beaten? What Avi should have done would have involved a trip to Amir’s and a trip to Duane Reade. When the interview began, Avi should have set two things on the table.
@Alex The guy with the pony-tail was also at an anti-immigration demonstration on Saturday at the Mexican consulate. He is a pretty ugly human.
@to answer 179 none of the upcoming speakers have been “scared” away by the totally outrageous actions of the protestors last week, but I would suspect that any type of disruption that we saw last week will be dealt with in a much quicker and more appropriate manner.
@thanks for the articles, I will read them. Specifically I wasnt talking about Stalin’s tactics dealing with Conservatives or capitalist, but opposition in general.
A number of deaths were of course attributed to their failed “five year plans” but a great number were also attributed to the direct hand of Stalin and his desire to eliminate all dissent. To say otherwise would be to ignore that his ranks righ thtere with Hitler as one of the most ruthless dictators of all time.
But I do appreciate you trying to clear up what you consider their position to be, and their articles.
At the end of the day the group that parades around campus is dedicatd to espousing any policy that refutes the United States, and does distribute propoganda that is vehimently anti-American and filled with false accusations and entirely false information.
@Yesss Well, yeah they’re propaganda is anti-American, its anti every single country on earth, lol. I’m not sure what you’re trying to hint at, does the fact that someone disagrees to a great extent with American economic policies invalidate them from discussion? I don’t know where you stand politically, I would describe myself as a conservative with a libertarian bent, and I for one disagree with a large degree of what America does. In fact if I would recommend any one film for people to see it would be “America: From Freedom to Fascism” by Aaron Russo, a libertarian-conservative and a supporter of the Minutemen. I think the documentary will open your eyes to some of the ways that the US government has been shaped by both conservatives and liberals in order to opress freedom and the American populace. So, what, does that make some kind of evil anti-American meanie in your view? lol
@sooo can we get some info about the SHOEBAT event next week, dear bwog? unless, of course, this weeks events have scared the controversial speaker from coming….
@OKhere I understand you’re talking about tactics. I still don’t see how any tactics the ISO employs have a particularly Stalinist heritage. When Stalin came to power the USSR had already been inexistence for approximately 10 years, so I doubt Stalin ever elaborated on the right means or tactics on how to encounter conservatives or capitalists. Nor do I see any tradition of his followers looking for confrontation or instigating violence. As for silencing dissent, thats very true, but that occurred within the party appartus, mostly to root out Trotskyists or their predecessors, the Left Oppositionists within the Bolshevik Party. Most of the civilians who died during his time died due to the horrid conditions that arose from lightning-fast industrial modernization that occurred in those years (although China’s Great Leap Forward would cost even more lifes, happening even faster and occuring in a country with no industrial production whatsoever). Some interesting articles on the Trotsky-Neocon connection are at:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j061303.html
http://antiwar.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=&urlID=8208846&fb=Y&partnerID=16
http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/January2004/0104Raimondo.html
Dont be fooled by the antiwar.com URL name, its a conservative site started by Raimondo in opposition to the Clinton-sponsored Bosnian war (although Raimondo’s views on the Iraq War are not supportive either, but thats from a paleoconservative viewpoint, not a leftist one).
@mike Not sure if this has been addressed already, but for those saying that Kulawik likely kicked someone after they cut away in the Univision broadcast, you have to figure that’s pretty unlikely. If Univision had footage of another peaceful protestor getting kicked from onstage, why would they edit that out when they showed the other kick three times? Aside from that, I doubt Kulawik is dumb enough to just kick some student on a stage in front of a bunch of cameras.
@rumor has it that another version of the clip was shown on another one of univision’s news programs. and that that clip shows that there is a first kick by a um…mysterious first kicker. The student carrying the banner was definitely kicked twice by two different people.
@Please read they are stalinist in their TACTICS. Meaning they continually look for confrontation, instigate violence in order to promote their cause and would silence ALL dissent that they encounter, which is what they did last week.
Not philosophy, tactics. I hope that I was a bit clearer this time, I was certainly not talking about their mantra, or how close they are to true Marxism, et al. The fact is that the ISO is a radical organization which is wholeheartedly devoted to any anti-American cause.
I would actually like to ask any of the ISO members who are reading this, commenting on this, what is your take on the attacks perpetrated on 9/11. I hope you have the courage to answer becasue it would help shed a lot of light on what you advocate and where you stand.
This is not some ploy to drag you into that whole 9/11 arguement, but an honest request because I would like to get your take on it since i dont know your position.
@the banners are not the problem, if it had only been those few students who had gotten on stage (illegally) unfurled their banner and that was the extent of it, this would have warranted the response you mentioned above. It was the 20 or so students who trampled over the ropes, in the front of the stage, and then stormed the stage that precipitated the events that followed.
Without those students/people rushing the stage it would not have turned out like this. Did you ever wonder why it took nearly 30 people to hold two banners?
Those people rushing the stage represented a threat since it was not known what they would do. Considering this the response was light. Again, go to any other venue and rush the stage (not talking about the people with the banners) but rush the stage, and see the response that would follow.
For instance, lets put it this way, say Hillary Clinton would have been on stage, CR’s or C4 would have rushed on with a banner and unfurled it, then 20 other Cr’s rushed the center of the stage, what would the response have been.
Lots of bloody CR’s and C4’s which would have been fully warranted.
@can you cout? or are you blind?
@i cant't spell *count*
@no, you can't *can’t*
@as soon as they can edit it enough to not show anything incriminating against the protestors. It will not show the 20 or so people who immediately rushed the stage after the banner was unfurled. It will only show that which they want to show.
@interesting things at the end of the day the people on the stage had absolutely no right at all to be on there, and should have been removed by whatever means necessary.
This could have been much worse, and if it had been in any other political venue (campaign speech, political talk, etc) would have been much worse. The people occupying the stage would have been physicaly picked up and taken off. That is how things work. I can not go rush on the field at Loser (sorry Yankee) stadium with a I love the Red Sox banners and not expect to be physically removed (and not with a loving tap on the shoulder I might add).
Grow up, the people who rushed the stage initiated this, the reaction was mild by most standards.
@Anonymous I think they intended to be removed after they stormed the stage. Removed, arrested, whatever.
Let’s keep in mind that threat level is also proportionate with the level of force necessary to remove them. I was not there and don’t know how dangerous this group going to the stage was or seemed, but to me it looked innocuous and more like a party.
If you run onto the field at any stadium, you will be taken away and given whatever punishment it is they give you. If you are say waving a baseball bat while doing that you’ll be tackled or tazered, etc. If you get pulled over for speeding, you’re usually not going to get beat up, if you’re acting like a violent psychopath you might get shot. To me this seemed like a disproportionate response, but like I said, I didn’t see anything, only what the video lets me see. Maybe the banners were the protestors secret weapon and was super dangerous, which would explain the overly aggressive move to rip and tear it away from the protestors.
@omg a reasonable person.
incredible, thankyou.
@we've been over this. this wasn’t a party. this was about a dozen plus people sprinting, and trampling over the barricade adn rope set up onto the stage at an angle that originally appeared towards the centere
this was certianly not a party atmosphere. there was defeintley a huge sense of anger throughout the entire event
@where is the petition?
@ummm has anyone read the petition in support of the protestors? its a load of bs.
@its the one that bwog supports that asks for no consequences for teh stormers
@wow the minuteman project was initially a singular protest on the border in late 2004. the 2 organizers of this initial impetus? Jim Gilchrist and Chris Simcox. Do not be disingenuois please. As for the savage quote. Please do your research. It was made in collectivity as a board member of the California Coalition for Immigrant Reform.
@yes a singular protest which has split into two moments, neither of which you have proven was racist. i even mentioned they split in my post. As for the savage quote and asking me to do my own research. the burden is upon you if you list an unsourced quote that you claim is evidence to prove someone is a racist. so quit being a dolt and provide evidence of your claims
@Stephen good observation, but what most likely happened is something neither side wants to admit.
The guy in the blue was running up, tripped or something, grabbed on to the other guy who fell on top of him.
Imagine that, no one at fault!!!! How will we be able to spin that?? Gosh, we cant have that, so you can be assured that those who wanted to see the guy in black (or whatever) assaulting the guy in blue will see that and vice versa.
The truth is too boring to consider.
@Anonymous or it could be that, arguing these little points is kind of … pointless. so i’ll stop.
@homo love “so you can be assured that those who wanted to see the guy in black (or whatever) assaulting the guy in blue will see that and vice versa.”
The guy in blue is clearly an aggressive homosexual. In the chaos, he took the opportunity to grab the guy in black’s buttress and go for a friendly wrestling match. In homosexual love, there is no us and them. Everybody is on the same team. WE’RE ON THE SAME TEAM!
@agreed i’m sure it would grind some people that nobody could be to blame
@Univision? are you absolutely kidding me. Univision makes CBS look like a Republican owned and operated station. I apologize but very little in the way of unbiased journalism comes from Univision.
In fact, I guarantee, ok not guarantee because thats a strong word, but highly suspect that those touting Univision as the end all of truth are the same ones denouncing Fox as biased. They both are and will both offer the footage and commentary that their target audiences want to hear.
@wtf? i am not talking about univision’s journalistic integrity. im talking about the video they have, which is going to show some pretty interesting things…
@Hmm When can me see this UNIVISION video?
@VIDEO!!! UNIVISION!
UNIVISION!
UNIVISION!
UNIVISION!
@congratulations you’ve discovered the caps lock button.
@Kulawik didnt kick anyone. The minuteman kicked someone once, the ISO guy in blue tackled the guy in black, and the other guy in black tried to pull a banner.
All in all considering the number of people on stage, the amount of confusion and the chance for this to escalate, this didnt turn out as bad as it could have.
For those who are chanting “violence, violence” calm down. There is plenty of real violence out in the world, this, was not even close to violent.
@Anonymous kulawik didn’t kick anyone, but it wasn’t the guy in blue tackling someone. if you watch the video the guy in blue is actually already off balance and has one hand down on the ground to stabilize himself and the guy in the suit basically wrestles him to the ground and drops him.
@no way the guy in the blue grabbed the guy in black’s leg
@Anonymous perhaps you didn’t notice the guy in blue is already on his knees when they are visible on camera. that’s not how you tackle someone.
@well at the very least if he was just trying to get balance he did put his arm on the other guy to try to get his balance. if that happened to me unexpectedly i’d react too
@DuhYoMama It was the Columbia republicans who brought the racist provocateurs with no intellectual honesty or arguments to campus knowing full well that this would provoke repudiation and action. You are sooo naive….
@you are a racist provocateur. you should be banned from campus. you have no intellectual honesty. you are a fascist brownshirt. you are a shithole…
@i think if kulowik did kick a student he should apologize immediately before a better video by univision comes out. the guy in the red hoodie is kicked twice and ive heard rumors about who kicked him the first time…
@wooo rumors. i’ve heard all teh republicans on campus go out during the night to feast on braaiiiiiinssss!!!!
@sweet we’ve reached malaysia and romania http://story.malaysiasun.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/b8de8e630faf3631/id/d10ce46477dcb129/ http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_1380-Columbia-U-President-Condemns-Fracas.html
@sec 43 nazi salutes?
@probably a wave goodbye. pictures of the nazi salutes from teh protestors are comign though
@um ok unlike the gilchrist supporters, the protesters have their fists clenched the whole time. look at the video.
@they mean earlier in the event. there were actually people in teh audience giving the salutes at one point
@ummm “all you’re doing right now is trying to label an organization that disagrees w/you racist based upon no evidence whatsoever and your unbacked claims. you are actually being oppressive, intellectually dishonest and just an asshole in this case”
-actually…. a direct quote from co-founder chris simcox regarding latin-americans:”They have no problem slitting your throat and taking your money or selling drugs to your kids or raping your daughter and they are evil people.”
a direct quote from co-founder jim gilchrist labelled all mexicans “savages”
unbacked claims? no evidence? simply imposing racism where it doesn;t exist? oops! unfortuantely for your argument the founders of the minutemen let the cat out of the bag a long time ago….
@Context hey 131, could you link to those quotes? Not that I don’t believe you but I’d like to see the context. If he straight up said “latinos are:” thats one thing, if he said “immigrants from mexico are:” thats another, both are wrong but the first is racist while the second is just ignorant.
@again trying to lie or just being very ignorant. the minutemen actaully split w/simcox and there are two different groups. The bigger one, which was at columbia was gilchrists. As for gilchrist labelling all mexican’s ‘savages’ i need a link or some evidence for that. You have to realize just posting random quotes and hten yelling out racist or unfounded assertions doesn’t make your case. it only makes you look stupider
@Link Link Link I have an external link for ya:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Civil_Defense_Corps
Chris Simcox runs the “Minuteman Civil Defense Corps” which is often confused with the Minuteman Project, but which is a distinct group.
@yes. you’re point? again. i specifically mentioned this in my post. in fact that The Minuteman Project, Inc. is the biggere group gilchrist heads. you seriously didn’t believe you were making a point right idiot?
@sharp points I am not the origingal poster, I was agreeing with you and trying to back you up but I can see how what I wrote could be taken out of context.
I too have seen no evidence that Gilchrist or his organization are racist though I’ve challenged people to provide evidence repeatedly…
@wow so i guess you don’t have any links to source your stuff
@Actually the ISO is a bit more Stalinist than Trotskyist because of the methods them employ. I believe that in their core they follow more along the Trotsky lines, but certainly take their tactics, approach and mantra more from Stalin.
Its interesting though, that in this day and age, when the world saw what oppression, decay and suffering that communism brought that they would still consider this a viable option in today’s world. One of the benefits of living here (America) is that they can continue to advocate this type of political system and not have to worry about the same oppression that would occur if someone living in their favored system of government (if implemented) advocated capitalism. They would immediately be arrested, sent to a re-education camp or disposed of.
Drips with irony, no?
@Elaborate? What tactics does the ISO employ that makes them “more Stalinist than Trotskyist”? I’m very confused by this statement primarily because Stalin contributed very little to any theoretical works on tactics. His main two contributions to Marxism are the idea of ‘Socialism in One Country’ (which most Trotskyists oppose, and which, judging by the ISOs decision to support foreign-born workers, the ISO also opposes) and the creation of a rigid, large, central beauracracy in order to employ modernization schemes like the Five-Year Plans and rapid increases in industrial output. Considering the ISO (last time I checked) wasn’t in charge of managing an industrial economy, or employing a beauracracy to run it, its weird to say they are employing “Stalinist tactics”. In fact the whole idea of a Trotskyist-Stalinist group seems rather bizarre since Trotskyism arose specifically as a counter to Stalinist. In fact during the Cold War many Trotskyists sided with the US in order to fight Stalinist regimes, and had a huge impact on the neoconservative movement. If you are more interested you should read Justin Raimondo’s critique of the influence of Trotskyism on conservatives such as Irving Kristol and Willmoore Kendall. So do you care to elaborate on what you originally meant?
@Its quite a stretch to say that Fox had this lined up before anything ever happened to take the focus away from the gay pedophile Foley when it was the ISO who organized the protest, unfurled the banner and rushed the stage. I wonder if the ISO called O’Reilly before and told him what was going to happen.
DDDUUUHHHH
@Anonymous more snipped on CU/Havana: http://travel2.nytimes.com/top/features/travel/destinations/bermudaandcaribbean/cuba/havana/sight_details.html?vid=1107942623952
also, I think this was a good post on the subject of the Minutemen and illegal immigration by Sean CC’06 @ http://columbiacritic.blogspot.com/
@woah. you're trying to deflect here. this is the columbia gossip blog. and by teh way foley is still all over the news. that’s a different conversation which ends up at hypocrisy of the democrats and the disgustingness of foley though
@Pathetic This is just an attempt from the right to get the pedophile Foley off the news and shift discussion into “fears of mob rule” and a “free speech” issue. Remembger Willie Horton? Looks like all the Fox interviews were lined up even before anything had happened. Hmmm.
@the pictures...... Disingenuous comments from CU Republicans: annoying.
Bold face lies from Minuteman Marvin Stewart: Infuriating.
Pictures displaying the undeniable hypocrisy of al critics of the protest: PRICELESS!!!!
@still knowing the protestors are also going to be suspended adn that the ‘free discussion’ of idea of campus was exposed…
priceless
@who told you that they would be suspended? the administration has said nothing yet.
@WhoKnew? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_axtrFWqK7s
Yeah, when you invite a group whose members consist of people like “Advocate from Stomfront” who advocate the genocide of “half-breeds”, the idea that they may be predisposed to acting violently is completely off-base!
@wow what a ridiculous post. in the video you have a guy from a racist organization peacefully holding a flag in a minutemen demonstration. he’s the one prodded about his association but he does nothing. meanwhile he’s the only one asked because he’s the ony stormfront member at that single minutemen rally. So yeah. that definiitely provess all minutemen are racists who turn violent?
do you have any intellectual honesty or ability? all you’re doing right now is trying to label an organization that disagrees w/you racist based upon no evidence whatsoever and your unbacked claims. you are actually being oppressive, intellectually dishonest and just an asshole in this case
your serve douchebag
@there's been discussion of how white supremacist organizations feel about the minutemen even at the bottom of his bwog post http://bwog.net/index.php?page=post&article_id=2290#comments
so far there’s definitely no definitive evidence you can call the minutemen racist
@since we are on the subject of the ISO let us pose this question. They were there supposedly represented the illegal immigrants who are having their rights trampled on when they knowingly enter a country without properly following the rules and regulations surrounding said entry, but…at the same time advocate a system of government that openly oppresses and kills people. i.e. Cuba, China, North Korea et al.
I just seem to find that a bit more than ironic. What they are saying is that they want the people they are defending treated better than they would be if there were living in countries that they model as the types of societies they defend and even promote on college walk.
Yeah long live Che, who was a communist, an oppressor and a murderer
@Actually Actually ISO is Cliffite-Trotskyist, meaning they opose China, NK, Cuba, Vietnam, and the USSR after (I think) 1926 as being state-capitalist, which is to say an economy that still relied on capital-based production but which had a beauracratic/state class running things instead of a bourgeoisie. I dont think you would find very many Marxists period that would support China, especially after the Deng Xiaping’s institution of “socialism with Chinese characteristics” which is essentially a corporatist or mixed-economy type model. Capital exists, but is heavily regulated by the state.
@Did not Senior Bush first start throwing “fascist” around recently? It’s one of his buzz words now. If this happened a year or so ago we wouldn’t be fascists, Columbia would be part of the “axis of evil.” Hmm. The latter sounds sexier.
@personally i like university of havana, north.
or
la universidad de habana, norte!
@Anonymous interestingly, from photos, apparently the University of Habana’s architecture is very similar to Columbia’s. I read a while ago
http://www.be.wvu.edu/divecon/econ/trumbull/cuba/university.htm
that U of H was patterned after Columbia, they even have an Alma Mater. A little ironic that this was brought up by O’Reilly.
@that is priceless sweet
@yeah bush was also responsible for the killing of the amish and the holocaust. BDS in full force here.
@he did use the term of ‘islamic fascists’ for those that wish to silence all criticism of islam w/violence. that isn’t an unfair usage.
though i suppose its more popular here to support them vs bush
@Anonymous When did “fascist” become such a popular term to throw around and misuse? Is fascist the new communist?
@yeah right the term fascist came into vogue to describe bush in the lead up to the iraq war and in the guanatanamo protests.
its the new ‘orwellian’ which students through around meaninglessly
@In general Fascist is just anyone I happen to disagree with. Lets say you like Catcher in the Rye, then you’re a Fascist. Maybe you like Red Sox, then you’re obviously a Fascist. Sometimes fascism is ambiguous, maybe you are a professor who assigns a lot of papers, this makes you a Fascist, but also grades easily, this makes you an anti-Fascist, in these situations its hard to tell.
@nah i can see how some people are reasonable using this. they’re basically using it to denote someone who’s trying to supress speech or opinions hat don’t align w/their views. This isnt that far a jump from teh real definition.
@everybody stop alec baldwin has acknowledged this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alec-baldwin/the-embarrassed-republica_b_31234.html
@Alec Baldwin is the man. Hes dreamy.
@too bad he’s a fucking idiot. shouldnt he be in canada right now too?
@Maybe Arabic... is significant here when you look at certain recent actions of the government against non citizens both in america and outside of its borders.
The terrorists the US government is going after are almost all arabic speakers. These are (supposedly) the ones that Bush no has the overriding power to deny Habeas Corpus too. (i say supposedly because the PATRIOT ACT, for example, was used to investigate drug trafficing more than terrorism)
Many Arabic speaking citizens and non citizens alike are not only victims of hate crimes post 9/11 but also interned by the government.
I feel like Arabic is a much more appropriate language than say Hindi or Mandarin when discussing immigration and non citizen issues that are most visible in the US.
@citizens always have the right to habeas corpus. get with it law school dropout
@Anonymous By the way BWOG GOT LUCKY…
People forgot about the new design and the ugly logo becuase of this crap.
Is this good or bad Bwog?
@Ashcroft sez: If protestors had tried to go up on the stage with Ashcroft they would have been beaten and maybe eventually shot by the Secret Service. Unfurling a banner in the audience is one thing, rushing a stage at the angle of a speaker with like 20 people is a vastly different thing.
@TheArabic As for the Arabic issue, I’m not really sure what the contention is over. Of course illegal immigration is also a very large issue with regards to the Chinese, Indian, West African and various other ethnic groups. The decision to use Arabic was likely because much of the attention from anti-illegal immigration groups has focused on Mexicans crossing the border, and the tendency to associate any Muslim immigrant with terrorism. Its probably just meant as a symbol of solidarity. If they had decided to put the phrase in, say 10, languages on the banner, it probably would’ve been less readable and had less of a visual impact. I think you are reading way too much into it, and the debate over Muslim vs Hindu populations in India is silly. I doubt the people who made the banner decided what languages to use based on quota numbers, it was just more of whats been in the media in recent times.
@Beth I would generally agree with your last statement regarding going up and thinking they would just get escorted off if it were not for the involvement of the ISO. Had this been strictly a Chicano Caucus coordinated effort that would probably be what happened, but, the mass chaos that ensued is standard protocol for the ISO, who unfortunately were heavily involved.
As well, you have to notice that it was not just the unfurling of the banner, when that happened students rushed the stage, this set off the melee. Had students not rushed the stage, it probably would have been an isolated incident, things would have continued and the event eventually concluded and we wouldnt be spending so much time watching Fox, univision and blogging on Bwog.
Still, when you refer to the Ashcroft event, they unfurled the banner in the AUDIENCE, made their point, were led away and the event continued. There was no rushing of the stage, for if that had happened, you would have seen what would happen in any other venue in America. They would have been physically removed by security forces.
@the difference here is that more than a dozen people rushed the stage. security wasn’t prepared for that.
and like you said. this was diffrent from ashcroft because he banner was in teh audience and not on the stage, which they shoudl’t have been able to access anyway as it woud be a safety risk
@But Yes, that time it was in the audience. But you just said the standard protocol of the ISO was “mass chaos”. What examples do you have of this being their “standard protocol” or goals, other than your own opinion? If it had been their protocol, you would’ve expected them to try to remain in the auditorium or struggled or done something to set off some chaos. Instead a security guard walked over, told them to leave, and they walked out, whole thing lasted maybe 30 seconds. That time it was them alone, this time various others were involved. So I’m not really sure how you’re gathering that this can be determined to be pre-meditated action based on their past actions.
@why That seems fairly far-fetched to me, the guy in blue tackled scott by crouching down on one knee while Scott was standing, hoisting Scott onto him so that when they fell not only would Scott fall on top of him but he would be extremely vulnerable?
@Kid Kulawik On one hand, I think Chris doesn’t really merit any praise here. I feel like his behaviour is relative to that of a 9 year old working to get attention.
On the other, I wish that people would stop bitching about him all the time, it’s getting exhausting and he’s really not all that interesting once you start writing everything he does off as just attention getting tactics.
@more info where can i see scott getting tackled
@ummm def punishment is due for most people involved, HOWEVER, it is COMPLETELY illogical to give a warning to a student organization for “bringing a speaker whose posse kicked someone in the face.” How were they to know what would ensue- is there some sort of a form that student groups need to have their speakers fill out: “Do you plan on kicking someone in the face?” AND if so not to bring them in? Are you for real?? i heavily condemn the kicking and any sort of violence, but give me a break.
@Judge and Jury 1. No Appeals. None.
2. It still happend, I’m sure Chris didn’t plan on it, but it happend. It’s just a warning, I’m sure they would just shrug it off anyway, just like the Chicano Caucus.
@Well Well, when you invite a group that is basically an armed, vigilante group, juding that they may have a propensity towards violence doesnt seem very far-fetched…
@be a grown up Student groups should absolutely take responsibility for the actions of their guests.
It’s like when you sign someone into your dorm, you are responsible for their actions. Don’t sign in people who are sketchy or have been investigated by the FBI for carrying weapons illegally and being responsible for racially motivated. (SPLC)
@Judge and Jury Also, anyone who continues to find something wrong with Arabic on a banner or continues to argue about it, will be caned.
@Judge and Jury After due consideration and reviewing the available video evidence, I’ve decided that:
1. The Minuteman guy in the White Shirt and Cap is a thug and should be charged with assault, let the cops handle it.
2. If the guy in the black shirt who started the tug-o-war with the banner is a student, he should be suspended for the year.
3. Those who made the pre-coordinated rush to the stage with the banner should be suspended for the semester.
4. Those who rushed the stage after the banner was brought up should be placed on some kind of probation thing.
5. ISO should have its student group status revoked, Chicano Caucus should be given some kind of strong warning, and the Republicans should be given some kind of strong warning for bringing a speaker whose posse kicked someone in the face.
There are no appeals.
@yikes i think everyone on campus should give kulawik a lot more respect. i dont agree with most of his views (as expressed in his spec articles) but has it occurred to anyone that he is probably one of few vocal republicans on campus? he is one of few that actually brings another perspective to this biased campus, and were it not for a lot of his actions what little dialogue (because lets face it, wed night’s activities, if you will, will never count as dialogue) this campus actually does see would never even take place.
@How is that sickening, do you really think he had time to react? Sickening is the taking of the stage by the “protestors”. They had no business on stage, and as someone said above, had this been any other event, in any other locale, they would have been phsically removed and arrested immediately.
If they wanted to protest they could have unfurled their banner in the audience, they wanted confrontation, they wanted all of this. The fact, and its a fact, is that the stage was NOT theirs, they had no valid nor legal reason to be on the stage. They are entirely to blame for the melee
@Beth Gabor What the protestors did was not intrinsically an invocation to violence. A group of people unfurled a banner behind the speaker. Presumably, they expected all that would happen is they would be pulled off stage by security. A disruption to the speech, sure, but not a terribly unusual one; the tactic is frequently used by activists at all sorts of protests. It’s a good way to get publicity for a cause, since you know any media present will snap pictures of the speaker with your banner in the background. In any case, the situation unfortunately turned violent as a result.
The correct response from Gilchrist would have been to simply ignore the protestors, wait for them to be hauled off, then continue speaking. But as we can see from the way both Gilchrist and the person who introducted him taunted and baited the audience members (and from the exaggerated statements they made on TV), neither of them are exactly, er, how would I say… cool-headed people. In hindsight, I guess it isn’t so surprising that the protestors and the Minutemen supporters would clash. I really don’t think most of the protestors went on stage meaning to start a fight, though. They probably planned it as an act of civil disobedience and thought they would simply be removed by security, as usually happens at Columbia events when protestors cause a disruption. You can say they had no right to protest in this way if you want to, but I think it’s a reach to imply that they were solely responsible for the fight that broke out merely because they were on stage.
@wow... one of the most reasonable comments so far.
thankyou.
@i would agree w/you beth except for the nature in which they rushed the stague. the front was cordoned off by rope and a bunch of thing connected to teh rope. there were actually two waves of protestors who sprinted in groups and broke through the rope. the angle at which they came from made it look like they were making a beeline to the stage. i know the video doesn’t focus on teh protestors run, but the fear that they were actually heading to gilchrist definitely may have provoked violence
@quiqui Bwog is being socially responsible and reporting facts that are being warped and manipulated by mainstream media. Has someone sent these stills and the video footage to the administration? The still showing Kulawik looking on while a minutemen kicks a student is sickening.
@wow what a suprise. fascists w/a vendetta against kulawik. kulawik is obviously in a defensive pose while everyone is bumrushing the stage and running around it from all sides That other minutmen guy did the kicking and both he and you (protestors) are teh ones who are sickening
take your disgusting fascism elsewhere
@Fascists Fascists, fascists, fascism, evil fascists, islamo-fascists, communist fascists, right-wing fascists, anarcho fascists, fascists, fascists, fascists and more fascists. Is that the only word in your vocabulary? Are you so uninformed about what the word ‘fascism’ means in a real historical and political sense that you apply it to anything and everything you don’t like? The main tenet of fascism is fervent nationalism, so are you saying that the protestors were attempting to exalt American nationalism? Were the protestors up there defending the flag? Yet earlier you said they were campaigning for Open Borders, which would immediately mean they can not be fascists by definition. So, please answer me, are you just stupid, or are you purposefully trying to twist words in Orwellian ways to suit your views? You’ve done this in every single thread and its very tired.
@oh well what a suprise. fascists w/a vendetta against kulawik. kulawik is obviously in a defensive pose while everyone is bumrushing the stage and running around it from all sides That other minutmen guy did the kicking and both he and you (protestors) are teh ones who are sickening
by the way. nobody’s stupid enough not to notice 80% of the kulawik hate group are bwog folks
take your disgusting fascism elsewhere
@wow. showing your true colors bwog. putting up a petition asking for no repricussions.
you are assholes bwog.
@sorry for the triple post. can you fix that mods. thanks
@OMG hasnt anyone yet caught on to the fact that this is what the ISO wanted, what the ISO was looking for and what the ISO had planned.
I think a majority of those who rushed the stage (certainly Monique Dols) are all members of the wacky and outrageous ISO group that is always out on college walk advocating the overthrow of the government, pushing their insane rhetoric and making outrageous claims. This group goes wherever they can and incites people, pushed people to react and then claims they are the victims.
This group will get right into your face, shout epithats, yell at you and call you baby killer at their top of their lungs and then if you touch their hand to push it out of your face claims violence and starts screaming.
This whole thing got out of control because of their involvement and not so much the Chicano Caucus (were talking about the stage incident).
People need to realize that those on the stage had no idea of the intentions of those rushing the stage and honestly, anywhere else in the “normal” world these people rushing the stage would have been physically removed. Imagine protestors rushing the DNC stage at the convention, gee do you think they would have been allowed to unfurl banners and disrupt the speaker. No, they would have been physically confronted and moved off stage as they should have been.
Now there is no excuse for that guy kicking that girl, he should be dealt with properly, but there is no other evidence of violence that was not warranted. Peaceful protest, please thats absurd, you can not go anywhere, storm a stage and expect no repricusions. That is what Monique and her band want, no repricusions against them for what they have done.
People need to wake up and not be duped by this group.
@Actually Actually, the ISO did nearly the same thing when Attny Gen. Ashcroft spoke here. They unfurled a banner with some kind of message on it (what it said escapes me, something about torture I think), people clapped, and they were led out of the auditorium without any altercation. So when Monique or whoever said on H&C that they expected to be removed from the auditorium instead of the tug-of-war starting it doesn’t ring hollow to me.
Anyway, I dont see Kulawik kicking anyone nor do I see Scott being tackled. I mostly see the protestors and two individuals in black tug-of-warring with the banner, and then the guy in the white shirt/blue hat kicks some guy walking off-stage in the chest. Some self-defense, huh? Yeah, Im sure that kid walking alongside the stage was just about to pounce 3-feet up, get on the stage and attack, thats why he necessitated a brutal kick to the side? Notice in the tug-of-war most of the protestors are just trying to hold onto the banner while the guy in all-black is the one exerting the most effort to pull on it, what exactly the purpose of ripping it up so fervently, especially when you are supposedly in fear for your safety, is beyond me.
As for the supposed Nazi salutes, the person is referring to second 43 in the first video. It looks like Gilchrist is just saying goodbye or something of that sort, and is saluting the crowd. The woman next to him salutes with her arm at a side angle and with a swipe, which looks a lot like a Nazi salute but is likely a goodbye salutation. As for the woman behind them, I have no idea why she is saluting for so long (her arm is already up when it cuts to Gilchrist).
@look closely “but there is no other evidence of violence that was not warranted.”
False. The clip clearly shows Scott getting tackled by the big guy in the blue shirt. What did Scott do to warranted get assaulted?
It does, however, explain why Scott went crazy with the banner shredding. The student who tackled Scott needs to get expelled.
@I did but... Don’t see Scott getting tackled on the tape, what is the second mark when it happens?
Also, is they insane guy pulling on the banner Scott?
@WHAT? if you are talkin about sec 41 (in the first video)it shows the guy in black jumping the guy in blue…not the other way around…
@Ah Hah! I see what you’re talking about now. At around second 36, it shows the guy in Blue go around guy in black 1 and start moving toward Scott.
At second 41 it shows Scott going over the top of the guy (falling) with the guy in blue wrapping him up in what looks like a tackle. Too bad there isn’t video so far of what happend in between but it looks as if the guy in blue was the agressor.
@well hindi is the most popular language in india. while tamil, gujurati, etc are spoken, they’re nowhere close to the rate at which hindi is spoken. Also while the muslim population is second only to that in indonesia, muslims only make up about 10 % of india’s population
@bobby ok?
@fyi lots of indians are muslim, not all indians speak hindi, etc. etc.
@hindi is the most popular language in india. while tamil, gujurati, etc are spoken, they’re nowhere close to the rate at which hindi is spoken. Also while the muslim population is second only to that in indonesia, muslims only make up about 10 % of india’s population
@rmz 120+ million Mulims live in India. It has the second largest Muslim population in the world, after Indonesia.
@i really hope that the second part of your post got lost or something becuase i really hope you didn’t reply to just restate my points. i mentioned that india has teh second highest muslim population after indonesia. on top of that i said that muslims make up aout 10 percent. india has more than a billion people, which again proves me right
are you seriously that thick?
@yes, but the population of India is somewhere in the range on 1.2 billion, making the 120 million something on the order of 10%. Absolute numbers rarely have meaning outside of context.
@i don't think jim mcshane was at the event. at least i don’t remember him being there. i think you are getting him confused with the other top public safety guy. i forget his name.
@check out the frame about 42 seconds into the video. that’s about the clearest indication that Kulawik might have kicked a protestor. It cuts away very fast, but they must have further footage in the unedited tapes that would show whether or not he did kick someone.
@Anonymous Like I wrote before my comment was deleted, I went through the videos frame by frame and there is no evidence of Kulawik kicking anybody. He is in a defensive stance and steps forward when he sees someone run across in front of the stage and then steps to the side when he sees someone else moving in the other direction. You do however then see the really ridiculous parts and that is the Minuteman delivering a really nasty kick to a student’s side. You also see someone in a suit wrestle a kid in a blue shirt to the ground and drop him. You also see someone dressed in all black, engaging in an overly aggressive tug of war.
I don’t know what they were thinking, did they think if they took and tore up the banner that the protestors would go away? The ferocity with which they went after it was crazy.
Anyways, going by these videos, as much as you want to, you can’t accuse Kulawik of attacking anybody.
@stephen you and i probably disagree on a lot of political issues, but thanks for being one of the civil and level headed CU commentators on bwog
@yoooo why dont we accept that there are problems with what both the left and the right are saying? that neither side is correct, and that a solution can best be found in the middle? yes, the protestors were wrong in interfering with gilchrist’s freedom of speech, and yes, that minuteman was wrong in kicking a student. lets proceed from there, instead of making excuses for the shortcomings of each side…
@thank you done
there’s a difference though in talking about this campus and who’s to blame though. right now it doesn’t appear any of the cr’s were violent or the student protestors. however, the students did storm teh stage and effectively silence the event
@i'm sorry but it looks like scott is being tackled in that picture. also why try to incite people against kulawik when he’s obviously in a defensive stance theere which only adds to his claim he felt he was in danger. good job bwog, you pathetic apologists/fascists
yeah. i’m sure all those posts were an accidental deletion too..just like fox accidently label foley a democrat
@kazzy left wing jihad forever? please…
@FEATURED! the CTV footage of the minutemen protest is now featured on youtube!
great, more publicity…
@.... you can call it merely anecdotal, but the fact is that this is the anecdote used by the organization ITSELF. it is on THEIR website. thus it cannot be seen as a misrepresentation. sorry.
@um no you dolt. you have your own narrative that all minutemen are armed (for good reason too- there are dangerous criminals amongst the traffikers and even illegals themselves) but they only have pictures of some of their minutmen armed. they’re not trying to imply the narrative you are. as a consequence this is no anecdotal evidence you idiot.
@ummm The majority of the minutemen don’t go out with guns? You may want to check out their own website, http://www.minutemanproject.com. Photo after photo of members wearing army fatigues and carrying assault rifles….
@yeah you really don’t understand anecdotal picture evidence vs the overall group. are all minutemen captured in those pictures? well, then i’ll take documented sources as opposed to ‘duh , look at the picturees 101’
@allo which thread? havent read it and i would like to be well-informed before i continue—
@Silencing... There you go… yelling at the Minutemen, but threatening violence at the next speaker who has his point of view. But no, you’re not violent at all! And no, you’re not trying to silence free speech! They can speak, as long as they don’t mind getting hit in the eye with a rock!
This is the U.S. and we have freedom of Assembly without rock throwing. You can assemble a counter-protest outside, a rival event at the same time or another time, etc. — but you cannot occupy another’s stage like a pack of wild boars and act like you’re about the lynch people on stage.
Rock throwing and free speech have nothing to do with each other, and if you support free speech, you sometimes have to listen to people you don’t agree with (if you choose to go to the event). If you can’t without an active effort to shut them up, you’re not a liberal that believes in free speech. Instead, you’re a fascist.
Oh, and in so far as the Arabic banner, it is a bit confusing. Why Arabic among all other languages?
@yeah Agree with David. What the fuck #30, it was explained to you a few threads ago where the arabic connection comes in. Someone needs to out and out say what their real issue is with the use of arabic and stop hiding behind feigned ignorance. Between this and the losers who spread the idea that the arabic said “the holocaust never happened” it makes you wonder what the real agenda is with some people.
@while... we’re on this youtube kick
cam’ron on the factor > some balding loser and some less balding loser on the factor
@duh I would never want to silence a speaker, but if you’re talking the kind of shit that guys was, you’d better be prepared to dodge rocks while you’re speaking. LEFT WING JIHAD FOREVER!
@allo i still dont understand why there is arabic on the banner. when people muddle issues, which it is pretty clear that they are doing here, they lose supporters… like myself. this is the kind of stuff that always happens at columbia– people assume that if u agree with one issue that happens to be stereotypically more leftist, then u take the whole leftist package with it. no- not the case. that only applies to individuals who do not form their own opinions issue by issue, instead fallaciously adopting a certain ideology.
@David Uh, dude… what exactly is “muddled” by having Arabic on the banner? Does Arabic offend you or something? It’s an attempt to point out that issues of immigration and discrimination againts immigrants are broader than the Mexican border, many immigrants not being Latino. Which should be uncontroversial.
@then why not not use hindi or mandarin? many more indians and chinese are denied entry and h-1’s because of strict quotas then muslims, especially considering the more limited quotas from arabic speaking countries. And you guys are being naive idiots if you don’t recognize that the major attack we’ve had on our country and the repeated battles we’re fighting abroad now are with those from arabic speaking countries. I know your trying to dance around it, but even such a tenuous connection is going to raise questions.
@exactly when was the last time that illegal arab immigrants in the United States (since I am assuming that the issue at hand is illegal immigrants in the united states– or am i mistaken?) was a huge issue? if it is a huge issue and i am mistaken- and if the banner did speak to those illegal arab immigrants in the US, then I have no problem with the banner. But if these protestors were trying to suggest something else with their banner then I have a problem with it.
@Man Go back and read previous threads. Many of the groups protesting include among their concerns the defense of Middle Eastern Americans against the random hate crimes that cropped up after 9/11 (Fox actually had some good numbers on this, way back when). So it’s reflected in their advocacy and membership.
The Minutemen represent, in a sense, general xenophobia (not necessarily my opinion, but you know what I mean), so it’s not so far out to have a banner in Arabic. Anything else is grasping at straws.
@The fuck? “many more indians and chinese are denied entry and h-1’s because of strict quotas then muslims…And you guys are being naive idiots if you don’t recognize that the major attack we’ve had on our country …but even such a tenuous connection is going to raise questions.”
Indians…Chinese…Muslims? You dare call anyone an idiot when you conflate religion and ethnicity? “Muslim” refers to a religion, an arabic-speaking person isn’t necessarily muslim (most in this country are christian) and there are many Indians and Chinese are muslim, you fucking idiot. And what does your objection to arabic on that banner have to do with the “attacks” we’re being “naive” about? So you are implicitly admitting that it’s a legitemate language to have on a banner but that the attacks justify the restrictions? But then you call the connection “tenuous”? I sincerely hope you’re not a Columbia student and just one of the many trolls the media attention has drawn over here. Make some sense before you post, or just make it easier on yourself and admit what your real issues are with arabic on that banner.
@the connection between arabic and muslims isn’t a hard one to make. the primary language muslims use is arabic. this is necessarily true of arabian non-muslims. remembering this was the iso, it isn’t a suprise they would put the right of terrorists ahead of ameericans so the connectionos is fully worthwhile
by the way. don’t complain about the throwing around of the word fascist when you abuse orwellian and dont’ even pretend like you can hold disgust about who is a columbia student. you and youre disgustign compatriots started this entire miserable incident
@Wow I heard once that there are some Persians who are Muslim… not sure who though, may need to google for some evidence… oh wait THATS THE FUCKING NATION OF IRAN. Nevermind, i remember now.
The connection between arabs muslims and terrorists you just made in your last post is completely ignorant. Get off this board. Ever hear of Irgun? How about Timothy McVeigh? Terrorism isn’t limited to a ethnicity or religion, its a tactic that has been used for about 4000 years by a variety of ethnicities and religions.
@im sorry but anybody who steps out to college walk here’s the iso defending terrorists. and yes anybody can be terrorist. but right now the majority of them happen to be muslim. that’s an undenaible truth
@Let me see your ID I am in no way defending the ISO or their politics. What I am saying is that:
1. Arabic on a banner is absolutely meaningless in the wider context of this situation. There are many more important issues.
2. Your conflation of Arabic, Islam, and Terrorism is wrong on a variety of levels.
@ok. let me clear this up. i don’t believe arabic, islam and terrorism are connected naturally or in any sense. The majority of muslims are good, the majority of arabs (which includes many besides muslims) are good and obviously terrorists are bad.
The iso has been known to actually support the terrorists actions on their tables on college walk. Seeing as two iso members held up the original banner, and considering their (one of the few rightful things) concerns about guantanamo and their support of terrorists, it’s not a suprise they woudl include arabic.
Eiterh way. you’re still right. my conflation was wrong and it was because i was inarticulate. the arabic is likely meaningless but considering the iso’s views could have been included for more insidous reasons
@You are fucking insane. So your “connection” is arabic speaking = muslim = terrorists that the ISO is putting ahead of Americans? Are you actually hearing yourself?
Revolting. That shit may be acceptable at the Vanguard site or wherever the hell you came from but you can take your “connection”s and shove them up your ignorant ass.
@rjt Could somebody do me a favor and link me to an article or report about the Minutemen that explains what damage they have done outside of racist rhetoric? I’m not at all saying that such an article doesn’t exist…I just spent a few minutes Googling last night and couldn’t find anything. Somebody help me out.
@i'm not sure where you’ve found insitutional or widespread racist rhetoric either.
@David Some of the SPLC links at the News Hounds report you linked earlier discuss threats of violence, violent history, etc. I do not think that the Minutemen have yet been caught actually shooting anyone, however, although there have been shootings in areas they were operating where the shooter is unproven (also in the SPLC reports). They go out with guns but claim they’re just locating people for the border patrol. The majority of the violence that they contribute to is a matter of a legitimzing of racism and of people dying of thirst in the desert on the border.
@the splc besides not sourcing a single thing or having any evidence conflates the actions of a few members and even non members with the entire group, why is by and large peaceful. The majority of minutemen do not go out with guns. By the way, youre complete ignorance of the area or how traffiking occurs is sad david. The most common incident is the smugglers themselves on numerous occasions rapign and murdering the illegals. Otherwise, your post has been revealed to show the problem with your argument-its just a whole bunch of people shouting racist w/no support and indiscriminantly at all minutemen when in truth they are just try to help the police enforce the laws.
@lbd Tao has started commenting again. The boycott has ended…we must have done something right.
@for an update in the posts lost, they pretty much said, well at least on the behalf of me (cr member who was in the front row):
the minutemen guy who did the kickign shoudl be punished and prosecuted. the kids who charged teh stage should be punished by columbia and kulawik and the actually cr members didn’t do anything wrong, instead this pathetic display was due to the violent guy who was a minutemen supporter and the crazed protestors, whose disrespect for this institution and their peers provoked this
@Anonymous I wonder:
1. How much of the debates going on Bwog are going on between people who don’t go to Columbia and just came here due to the news.
2. How this will affect that pesky $2.4 billion we’re trying to raise.
@if these kids turn out to be heroes we might just raise a lil more than that…
@Anonymous How ironic. I somehow doubt that Columbia’s “fundraising base” wants to glorify student riots and disrespect for free speech. On the other hand, being capitalists, I’m sure they’re not too keen on the topic of closing borders either.
A rock and a hard place indeed.
@yeah we should all storm stages, shout out racial epithets and try to silence our peers when we disagree w/them
@UPDATE! at the present day, there’s breaking news “up in the house” (marvin stewart)
@illegal is illegal How is opposing illegal immigration racist? People rightly oppose illegal immigration because it is *illegal.* Illegal immigration actually decreases diversity by allowing into our country millions of people from the same background (Latin American) and speaking the same language (Spanish).
@Spelling! availible!
@actually the univision video is also edited. updated video coming soon. to be continued…
@hey that’s a really terrible translation
@OMFG!!!! at the ends she says that they do not appreciate the diversity of the American people
pueblo in the context in which it’s used means people not town.
@Anna Hi, would you let me know of any other inaccuracies in the translation? I’m not a native speaker, so I did the best I could, but if you have any other corrections, I’m sure the feed would be interested to hear them. Thanks,
Anna
Weekend Bwog Editor
@hmmmm.... so do all the people who’ve claimed there’s no proof that the minutemen are racist and violent have anything to say? cuz….. this looks pretttttttyyyyy violent, and hmmmm, whatdya know, it’s a latino getting the shit kicked out of him…..
@READ THE ENTRY It says RIGHT THERE on the front page:
“we apologize to those who commented on this post between 2:11 and 9:30 AM this morning. We messed up while updating the post, leading to the accidental deletion of the 60+ entry comment thread. We’re not censoring, we promise. “
@LatinoDefenseLeague Censor #11,
Did you actually see what happened? Or you just do not care that the minutemen were the ones inciting and engaging in violence?
What an ignorant fool.
@wow kulawik sure does hate banners!
@Censorship! There were 40 comments to this post yesterday, many of them critical of the protestors. Where you’re free speech, bwog!? Hypocrites, you’re just as fascist as the protestors. Really, there is no one more intolerant than a liberal.
@thank you minutemen for showing exactly who you are. kicking that poor kid after he’d fallen on the floor. that’s what these white-supremicist, violent shit-heads are all about; brutally attacking and harrassing those who are down, weak, and marginalized. Charges must be pressed.
Thank you KKKulawik for inviting such a nice group of friends to columbia. We really enjoyed having them assualt us columbia students. Maybe think before you invite racist vigilantes next time, huh?
@Sprinkles What is the name of man in the white shirt and baseball cap who’s kicking the student? Notice how he immediately leaves the stage after doing so. Coward.
@LatinoDefense The guy who is kicking the student in the face is well known.I have clear pictures of him elsewhere that I will be forwarding to the police. The student that was assaulted should also make sure to file a police complaint.
@LatinoDefense Yes, they are white power NAZI salutes…It is their way of showing who they really are. NAZIS coming after poor brown people…What cowards…
@why isn’t anyone commenting on the fact that this minutman supporter KICKING THE SHIT OUT OF THAT KIDS FACE?!?! anyone who has called the protestors barbaric and ‘uncivil’…… whoops!
@yeah.... there’s a lot of stuff in these videos that we hadn’t seen before.
@....umm.... in minute 1:09 as gilchrist is leaving the stage…is it just me or is he, the lady with the bandana behind him, and the lady with the red hair…are those nazi salutes?
i mean, i dont know about the other two but what kind of hand gesture is the one that the red haired woman gives?
@Are you kidding?
@im actually not... i havent slept in a while but…arm raised with palm open, right?
i read somewhere that people were saying that the student protesters had made nazi salutes but that was ridiculous because their fists were clenched…
we need better video.
@Anonymous that looked more like a patronizing wave goodbye to me.
@sorry i meant second 43
@latinodefense Nice Nazi salute there as the miknutement leave the stage…Shows who these bastards really are. SHAME ON COLUMBIA for giving a forum to these violent provocateurs. The students are heroes.
@latinodefense clear what is going on. the guy kicking is well known. I have pictures of him at other minutement events including next to police. He asaulted a student that was going in front of him, clearly not to him, and should be arrested.
@is it just me or is gilchrist shown walkin off the stage as he waves bye to the audience with a smile on his face?(oh, and im not sure but are his glasses still on?)
@second the "um" “who says they havent? maybe that’s why no repraisals have been taken against anyone. yay, investigations!!!!”
I think it’s funny how everyone has this holier-than-thou finger wagging — “Univision SHOULD turn over the video”, “supporters SHOULD be charged if they were outsiders who were violent”, “administration SHOULD pursue the minutemen wh incited the violence”, “minutemen guy SHOULD be charged”, “they SHOULD show (the video w/ CHris kicking) and share w/columbia and the police”
How do you know they haven’t? You really think the BWOG, the Spec, other media outlets, or “rumors” is privy to all those close door meetings?
And for the record, I am not an immigrant, a native Spanish-speaker, nor even Latino, but I watch Univision. Sabado Gigante y’all! (not to mention telenovelas — que dramatica! um, is “dramatica” a real Spanish word?)
@pro-immigrant The minutemen bring chaos and violence everywhere they go. They’re despicable thugs.
@if this is the way they behave when they feel threatened at a university with cameras and students watchin, i really dont want to imagine what kind of aggression they display towards illegals on the border when they feel threatened…
@bwog darlin.... i dont understand why you dont just put up a link to the second video. although it doesnt have much about the protest inside, the little bit that it has shows the bandana lady being carried offstage (maybe she was trying to get herself a piece of that banner?)
and it also has a nice close up of the guy in black tearing that banner to shreds….
@Anonymous psst…maybe if we take their banner and rip it up they’ll go away…
@Anonymous Someone has to have a full video of tihs event right? Now i’m kind of curious what the context of Gilchrist saying “what’s the big deal with illegal immigration, cmon”. Then we can have a second by second playback of what happened and what security was up to the whole time.
@UM WHY? why was the link to the second video erased from the first post?
you should put a link to that video underneath the one that you’re showing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwqPRmlb3Xg
@a few thoughts in retrospect, I guesss everything I had to say culminates in this: both sides — republicans and democrats, right wing and left wing — have collapsed unto themselves into mass hordes of idiots. Both sides were wrong in this incident: for rushing the stage, for resorting to violence, for falling victim to (and promoting) the stereotypes associated with each group. I would like to congratulate both parties on their one unified accomplishment — proving your immaturity both as college students and what some call “educated adults”. It truly pains me to see the schoolyard-like, petty namecalling continuing day after day. In your utter determination to place blame exclusively on one side you remind me not of passionate people devoted to the greater good (whatever it may be in your perspective), but of small schoolchildren crying out about whose Daddy is bigger. I suppose I should also congratulate both parties on making it to national television, and, for a second time, confirming your uneducated immaturity by falling prey to idiots like O’Reilly and Hannity. In the end the only good that may come of this, is the University’s realization of just how poor of a job it is doing both in selecting individuals and in educating said individuals to be responsible adults. Your actions did nothing to alleviate the immigration debate, and perhaps the best thing you can all do at this point is to publicly bow your heads in shame. If you think I sound like an overbearing father, you are absolutel correct — what other methods do you know of to deal with children? Your behavior does not warrant a tone worthy of adults.
@its a giant leap to assume the one kicker was a student. we know for sure the stormers of the stage included students. either way. i still generally agree w/your statement
@I did not assume that the kicker was a student. This particular video shows that one of the kickers was clearly an older male. However, it would be rather stupid of me to assume that no other students resorted to any sort of violence, given the “tug of war” shown on the very same video.
@.... who said that the podium was knocked over? the podium is pushed by the guy in the white shirt(gilchrist’s bodyguard? but it never falls…
@Flapjack Slim I protested. I am not ashamed. I agree that allowing hate-speech such as the vitriol spewed forth by the likes of Gilchrist is utterly irresponsible. I nevertheless defend his right to free speech–on the streetcorner, in his own home, in a public park. But if you come to my house, you must be joking if you expect me to sit idly by. It is the disenfranchised & dispossessed who need a voice. The only people who shut Gilchrist up were his own thuggish supporters and the shameful Republicans who threw the first blows. The proof exists on tape. Now is the time to spread the word, before it’s too late.
@ugh no dickface. this isn’t your home. its the columbia community. w/its own regulations. try taking a shit in lerner lobby. i guarantee you’ll get arrested. unlike at your domicile.
the charging of the stage, and taking over of it was what ended the event and provoked the violence
@questionable Why did the channel wait so long to release this tape? Why does it replay the same footage of the man kicking the other guy in the face at least three times? Why does it not show the entire footage, so that we can see what precipated the kick? Come on, use your common sense.
@this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfnn7wTgoE8&mode=related&search= clearly shows women, including one in a black bandana jumpign on to the gilchrist side at the second of the storming. i’m guessing they weren’t minutemen supporters and that that would constitute a reason for the need of self defense.
@can you.... watch a video?
you mean the woman with the bandana that is later speaking to the woman with the red hair that is clearly a gilchrist supporter?….
HELLO???!!!!
@i agree i was mistaken on that. i’m not for either side, so i agree with its my mistake. there were still other women running right aroudn the area. the guy w/the blatant kick shoudl be prosecuted. the self defense issues will be trickier
@were security also wearing black coats
@bwog. considering this excellent post has a hhigh likelyhood of being picked up by the mainstream press, i would suggest you take away any coloring of the tape w/your informative paragraph and have a neutral description as the video pretty much speaks for itself. This won’t make the video’s message any less credible, but will give conservatives less of a chance to cry about ‘bwog’s bias’.
@hey. for those who are saying kulawik kicked someone. can you give me a time in either of the two univision videos when it happened. i can see him making like a forward backward motion, but i want to see if i can see a kick
@MORE!!! MORE VIDEOS!!!
MORE PICTURES!!!
MORE, MORE, MORE!!!
PROOF!!!
@its pretty suspicious that univision holds this out a whole 3/4 days and there are still claims more pictures and videos are coming
@wtf? just because they held it from the bwog does not mean that they held it from the police!
you aint the center of the universe, you know?
@the network withheld footage and is realeasing edited copies. the burden’s on them to tell us whether they sent it in unedited to teh police etc. look i want to see any outside minutemen supporters can charged since it appears they were violent.
the fact i want the student protestors to be punished by the university doesn’t mean i can’t see there were violent idiots on teh other side, even if some of it was done in self defense
@i think.... if kulowik did kick somebody he should apologize immediately.
i think there is more footage and pictures that have not yet come out.
@it depends on the circumstance. if it was in self defense it’s ok. but if it was just malicious i imagine he will have to and will be reprimanded.
@STOP IT ALREADY! You would like to incriminate Kulawik, wouldn’t you! But the blood is on *your* hands, not his. You blame the victim for the crime. You are sick individuals.
@man how bad did security handle this. was there anything separating the crowd from the stage?
@also in the second video what’s up w/the guy in blue pretty much tackling the guy in the black suit
@Even More BS!!!!! That’s what satellite dishes were invented for!
@i agree with everything you said except for the kulawik thing. he may be an ass, but it appears as though somebody was headed for the directions towards the stairs closest to him and he stamped out at them reactionarily. to be fair though there were people blocking the view and i’m not even sure if he hit anybody. eitehr way, in that case there’s more than enough evidence for self defense
@Even more BS!!! The Republicans were victimized by liberal brown shirts like Beth, and every single clip proves it. I never said the things she claimed I said. I merely said that if everyone in New York spoke *English* as the main language and came here *legally*, Univision would would have no audience. Unfortunately, they don’t teach logic at Columbia anymore.
@LOGIC???? so legal immigrants would have no desire to watch television in their native language?
@you're an absolute retard. Just an FYI.
@Beth Gabor “I never said the things she claimed I said.”
I quoted directly from your post. How could I possibly have misrepresented what you said by quoting directly?
I also find it ironic that you accuse me of “not knowing logic” while your style of debating apparently consists of calling others names such as “liberal brown shirts.” My response was an essentially centrist one, namely that although it was inappropriate for the protestors to respond violently, we can also see in this clip that there were at least two or three individuals, presumably opposed to the protestors, who incited them by kicking and ripping the banner. So I am a “liberal brown shirt” for pointing out that there were several people, probably Republicans or Minuteman supporters, who clearly were not the innocent victims they have henceforth claimed to be?
I assure you that I remember my Logic & Rhetoric well.
@i would agree w/you on everything except for the republican inclusion (you no evidence it was republican students, as the one guy seen kicking is obviously older) and the innocence part as we don’t know how self defense will pllay into this, though that one fellow definitely looks like a jerk
@Beth Gabor You’re right. I should clarify: the people who incited the protestors may not necessarily have been members of the Columbia College Republicans, but they were probably Republican or pro-Minutemen in *persuasion* if they felt the need to kick protestors.
@thanks beth that’s all i wanted. I am a CR and i can tell you that i diddn’t like the minutmen supporters on that side and that i’m almost sure they were the most violent out of all the groups there. The cr’s in teh front, at least all the ones i knew, and i know nearly all of them, were more shocked than anything.
either way, i want to see everybody who did something wrong punished according to their crime. even if this means a minutmen supporter deservedly gets the stiffest crime. similiarly i want to make sure all the students who stormed are also punished, thoguh obviously less so
@Beth Gabor Furthermore,
“I merely said that if everyone in New York spoke *English* as the main language and came here *legally*, Univision would would have no audience.”
I would have to assume you haven’t had much contact with immigrants if you believe this. There are many immigrants, plenty of them legal, who are still interested in speaking and hearing their native language despite the fact that they can speak English perfectly well. I’m an immigrant’s daughter, and I can tell you my Hungarian relatives didn’t all stop speaking Hungarian the day they came to the US. My father’s been in this country for over 40 years, and I know it’s still true for him today that if he saw a newspaper or book in Hungarian, he would pick it up and read it just because it was in his language. However, it so happens that there are relatively few Hungarians living in New York, not enough to merit having their own TV channel. Spanish speakers, on the other hand, are numerous enough to support a network or two, and that’s why Spanish-language TV exists. Other ethnic groups that aren’t quite as numerous, such as Greeks and Italians, don’t have their own TV channels but do get a half hour or an hour’s worth of programming in their native language every day. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to maintain ties to one’s birth culture while simultaneously living in the US and speaking English. Nearly all first-generation immigrants do it to at least some extent, and that’s why so many cities have Chinatowns, Little Italys, Little Brazils, and so on.
@agree beth i sense we disagree on the extent to which the protestors provoked violence and the severity w/which they shoudl be punished, but this guy is barking up the wrong tree being pissed about a spanish channel… there exist ones for russians, italians, indians too jerkwad
@rjt Second half of the coverage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwqPRmlb3Xg
@There was nothing to indicate that the protestors had violent intentions. Having someone run up to the stage with a banner does not indicate violent intentions. To say that the Minutemen and Republicans were defending themselves and that the protestors deserved what they got is ridiculous and akin to blaming the victim. That was assault, pure and simple. I think we should also note the brief frame where Chris Kulawik kicks someone in the head. I hope he’s done as a Columbia leader.
@actually a claim to self defense is based upon a reasonable perception of being in danger. you will fine multiple witnesses who will claim that in good faith, as i am one of them, when i was in the first row and i saw a bunch of angry students charging straight at me
as for defending themselves, its hard to make that claim for the guy in the hat and he should by all means be charged. you vendetta for kulawik is silly though as it doesn’t show him doing anything.
@..... who says univision doesnt have a video showing kulawik kicking a protester?!?!
oh the things that are to come….
@the second part of the video doesnt show kulawik kickign anybody either. however if univision does have video they should show it and share w/columbia and the police
@....um.... who says they havent? maybe that’s why no repraisals have been taken against anyone. yay, investigations!!!!
@Anonymous I went through both videos frame by frame and there was no evidence that Chris Kulawik ever kicked anyone in the head, punched, etc. He may have been getting grabby with a poster but… nothing nutso.
The worst ones were some guy in a blue shirt getting wrestled to the ground by a Minuteman (unless that was a member of CR but I doubt it), and the white shirted minute man kicking the kid in the back. That looked painful.
Again, this should never have happened, where was Columbia Security the entire time? And what was so special about the banner that the guy with the crappy haircut and all black on felt the need to engage in a ridiculously aggressive tug of war? I mean, I don’t think they should have been on stage, but that was totally unnecessary.
@the banner said “say no to racism”
but what was really outrageous was that it also had it in spanish!!!
“diga no al racismo”
ugh.
@Anonymous It’s a travesty that Fox News managed to contort the truth, once again …
@CHARGED???!! Do you not see that the rest of the audience is standing still? the only person by the stage is the guy who gets kicked! not to mention the fact that he has a banner in his hands! and oh…he’s not even on stage….
@More BS!!!!! And one more thing: Univision will try to make the Minutemen look “racist.” But, it’s Univision that is truly race-baiting here: they cater exclusively to Hispanics and have an interest in making Hispanics look oppressed. Gosh, if all Hispanics spoke English and came across the border legally, why, there would be no need for Univision! Face it, UNIVISION IS RACIST!
@sure yeah. a repeatedly edited video by univision. and you cry about fox news. hypocrites
why did univision take so long when they actually have such good new facilities? why haven’t they and all other sources handed over their videos to the nypd and to columbia for the investigations
why are you such sheep bwog
@BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, that guy was PROTECTING HIMSELF! For all he knew, the whole auditorium was going to charge him!!!!! And they played that one clip over again, obviously it was edited to incriminate the Minutemen. Univision was invented for illegal immigrants who don’t know English, so stop acting like this is some kind of fair and balanced news channel.
@Beth Gabor “Univision was invented for illegal immigrants who don’t know English”
… because everyone who speaks Spanish is an illegal immigrant, and everyone who chooses to watch Spanish-language TV must be watching it because they don’t know English, right?
It’s still inappropriate that the protestors responded to the provocation, but this clip blows right out of the water the claims of the Republicans that they were the poor victims.
@i'm not sure how it blows out of the water the repubs were victims. that wasn’t a republican member–i know because i was there and he was at the right end of the audience where some minutemen supporters were. he should have full charges pressed.
however, the cr’s had their event disrupted, and the stage charged, and being there i can tell you many of us felt in physical danger when we saw the initial throng of about a dozen protestors charging towards us headed thankfully for the stage and banner
@well yes.... everyone who speaks spanish is an illegal immigrant much the same way that all arabic translates into “the holocaust did not happen.”
@i love how bwog is now trying to change the entiree grounds of what happened so they can play the victim and say well because one minutemen supporter kicked somebody (and he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for it) the issue of teh protest, chaos and storming shoudl be forgotten. Theirs enough blame and punishments to go around, and i hope they do.
@that one minuteman guy should be charged by the police. Nobody is stupid enough to pretend that was the entire thing. there was also minor pushing and shoving by two guys in front holding the banner.
People should be punished according to what they did. If it looks like a minutemem supporter kicked somebody they should be charged. Anybody charging the stage who’s a student should also be disciplined accordingly.
@WOW HOOOOLY CRAP. victory is ours. THEY, the minutemen and the republicans, began the violence and they kicked and they ripped. they are the ones that need to be pursued by the administration. SHUT DOWN!
@the minutmen supporters should be charged if they were outsiders who were violent. The students and protestors however are guilty still of storming the stage, creating chaos, and shaming columbia.
@holy shit who is that minuteman who kicks the guy on the floor! this shit is insane. This is exactly what the minute men are all about. Kicking poor people when they’re down. wow. good work guys. showing your true colors at last.
@Gregor LOL! Nice try. All I can see is a bunch of lunatic liberals rushing the stage and attacking the minutemen, and one guy kicking someone trying to join the attack. If security had done their job … Monique Bols would be dead from a gunshot wound to the forehead. Bitch! You people won’t get away with this crap much longer.