339 CommentsBecause commenting on comments isn’t meta enough, PrezBo and DSpar have released a third statement to Spec regarding the Obamanard fallout. Now that the furor has more or less gone viral:
We join in the sentiments expressed by so many of our wise and thoughtful students that disrespectful comments are not representative of our community. Our collective undergraduate student body takes justifiable pride in the uniqueness of their individual schools even as they share so many of their collegiate experiences.
In light of this infinite loop of commentary, Bwog would like to reiterate its commitment to serving as a conduit for Columbia community discussion. It’s clear that this discussion can, at times, take a severely hateful turn. But even challenging moments like this one offer an opportunity for progressive discussion and confrontation of social ills. To be clear, Bwog condemns and thoroughly disagrees with the hatred directed at both the Barnard and Columbia College communities. However, we do not view ourselves as arbitrators. Bwog comments are a mirror held up to the student population, soberly reflecting our microcosm of society with all of its imperfections intact. We encourage student efforts to rationalize the terms of this ongoing discussion, and look forward to a near future in which both the Columbia College and Barnard have resolved their differences, and can all get back to procrastinating in Butler together with hearts full of sibling-y love.
CCSC responds:
Members of The Columbia College Student Council (CCSC) firmly stand in support and solidarity with members of our community who are committed to fighting against the hateful, divisive atmosphere that has appeared on campus due to recent events. We are outraged by the comments made by members of all associations and are embarrassed by our peers who hide behind a computer and use the internet as a forum for malicious comments. It is absolutely unacceptable. Regardless of our personal experiences or the title of our individual colleges, we are all members of the same university community.
We understand the disappointment felt by members of Columbia College and we do not disregard it. But that is not an excuse for the recent behavior we’ve seen. We must respect one another and resist any temptation to engage in hateful discourse that will only serve to further divide us. What shocked us most were the misogynistic and hateful comments towards women. We seem to quickly forget that women do not only attend Barnard, but Columbia College and School of Engineering and Applied Sciences as well.
We must denounce the hate that is spreading across our campus, whether it is online or in person. We are committed to providing a safe environment for our student body on both sides of Broadway. Undoubtedly, the attitudes expressed point to the build-up of years of degrading comments and stereotypes held by members of all schools. We, as Columbians, are above this. It is apparent that our complacency with the past stereotypes has led to this troubling situation. Now, we must change.
—Members of the Columbia College Student Council
Updated Wednesday at 1:40 pm, with a statement from SGA:
As the Representatives of the Barnard College student body, we are honored to welcome President Obama as the Class of 2012’s Commencement speaker. This is a truly defining moment in the history of the College, and we feel privileged to be students here at this exciting time.
We are extremely disappointed and embarrassed by the disturbing reaction of some of our counterparts throughout the University. We are deeply hurt and horrified to have been met with an overwhelming wave of hate speech from our peers.
The disappointment that the President will not be speaking at their commencement ceremony is understandable. Regardless of this disappointment, the misogynistic comments that have bombarded the Internet are unacceptable, degrading, and offensive, not only to Barnard women, but to women everywhere.
We firmly believe in the importance of women’s colleges, and take immense pride in our outstanding education. At Barnard College, we are proud members of a community of bright, globally-minded, ambitious women. We look forward to working with our administration and all students across the University to combat this hatred moving forward, and, as always, to representing the voices of our student body.
The Barnard College Student Government Association
March 7, 2012
Loading …
339 Comments
@Anonymous True story: One CC girl and one BC girl got the same job and sat down in a circle for self-introductions. CC girls said, “I attend Columbia College” while BC girl said, “I go to Columbia University.” False statements? Neither. But that’s where the problem is. We all care too much about prestige, especially if it’s Ivy League. Is Barnard Ivy League? Is SEAS? I think so. GS? Perhaps, but they’re in a different age group so CC kids don’t care as much because they won’t be competing for the same jobs.
If Barnard is screaming about misogyny, all there needs to be done is stop receiving degrees from Columbia University. If not, then I wanna see BC on the application form after CC and SEAS. I wanna see the Barnard admissions office moving into Lerner Hall. I wanna see only Columbia ID cards and no more BC ones. In short, I wanna see one goddamn university with 4 undergraduate colleges, and not 3 colleges and 1 affiliate. Vagueness is what’s causing all this beef. Blame the Trustees.
@Potential CC parent My daughter is scheduled to attend CC beginning in the Fall of 2012. She was accepted early decision. This entire Obamanard controversy is making us wonder whether we should forgo the deposit!
We are truly horrified by the elitist, sexist and vicious comments directed toward Barnard. My daughter originally felt she might be more comfortable at a college that is known for empowering women. The only reason she chose to attend CC not Barnard is because CC has her desired major. However, she chose COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY, as opposed to another University, precisely because she could take classes at Barnard, and be involved in a community that she thought (mistakenly?) is at the forefront of celebrating women.
So, is all this Obamanard stuff mere sibling rivalry, or a truly dysfunctional family dynamic?
@Anonymous wtf
@Anonymous I thought college was supposed to be quite different from high school. Thanks to you guys, I realized that it actually is – it’s worse.
@korumbia dont understand how this obama speaking at commencement blown up to such proportions. obama just chose to speak at barnard. period. dont bring the question of “is barnard a part of columbia” in. its irrelevant.
@From a 7 Sister Dear Sisters,
As a current student at Smith College and a proud member of our merry band of 7 Sisters I just want to let you know that myself and others here in Massachusetts are horrified and upset by what’s been said here and what such hateful and spiteful things have been brought up.
You should be excited about an announcement like this and it bothers me and others that it’s come to something like this. I can’t speak for everyone here – but I speak for enough when I say that we’re with you 110%! Keep your heads held high.
@Anonymous > I am so surprised how entitled these Columbia posters are being! Great! You’ve gotten into Columbia, is that really your claim to fame? The one fact that you would state about yourself to convince Barrack Obama to come and talk to you? Of course I know this is not a representation of the entire community, but come on guys, your publicly defacing your degree.
Not only are these sentiments not a representation of our community, they mischaracterize most of the (relatively few) commenters who complained about the Obama decision. The argument goes: Obama went to CC. CC wanted him and was ignored multiple times. It’s his duty to his alma mater (weak, but some people place sentimental value on it). The fact that he bothered to come to Morningside Heights, but not speak at Columbia, seems like a deliberate snub (though it’s true that his sister is a BC alum). And I’m missing out, because CC is my school too. [Trolls or assholes add optional Barnard put-down here–sometimes bile, often real statistics].
Many comments (ostensibly from Barnard, but who knows?) frame it thus: I’m special because I go to CC. Obama should acknowledge how exceptional I am by speaking at my commencement ceremony. I’m angry because I don’t like to see Barnard students get something I don’t–they’re not as good as us. Oh, and they’re women.
The latter line is assigned to CC as a whole, incriminating even the well-meaning CC commenters along with the trolls.
I’m really not worried that I’m publicly defacing my degree. I’m more worried that comments like yours will do so, really. But even then, not so worried on this side of the street.
@Anonymous >Look at the thousands of students, increasingly from abroad, who are enrolled in graduate programs, programs that offer little to no serious prospects and cost tens of thousands of dollars.
The implication that Columbia’s acceptance of international students into its grad programs “cheapens its brand value,” while its association with Barnard doesn’t, is insulting and illogical.
@BC14 I walked into work today and the director of my department who never normally interacts with interns, pulled me into his office because he had read the news reports and the man was basically so shocked and disturbed by columbia’s reaction that he turned to me for some explanation, he just couldn’t understand why anyone, let alone ivy-league adducted “adults” could react this way.
how do you people not realize what the rest of the world thinks of your reaction? try opening a newspaper! this is an embarrassment to the school
@Anonymous I’m sure the $40,000 less you had to pay has a little to do with that ‘Barnard pride’
@Bryn Mawr Alum As a women’s college alum who did not apply to either of these schools, and knows close to nothing about them, there’s only 2 things that I’ve learned from these comments.
1: That Columbia students are babies for *expecting* that the president of the united states should, nay, MUST come speak for *them* as opposed to any other prestigious college. Seriously? No person is beholden to any institution they once attended, let alone the PRESIDENT. If Obama thinks that he would rather speak at a women’s college, I am sure he has good reason, and has thought it through a great deal. I am so surprised how entitled these Columbia posters are being! Great! You’ve gotten into Columbia, is that really your claim to fame? The one fact that you would state about yourself to convince Barrack Obama to come and talk to you? Of course I know this is not a representation of the entire community, but come on guys, your publicly defacing your degree. Which apparently made from the gold that Columbia students shit.
2: Some Columbia students are … really big, sexist douche bags, and probably don’t know much about feminism.
I don’t know about the quality of education at the two schools. All I know is that Bryn Mawr students frequently take classes at UPenn to boost their GPAs, so obviously U.S. News and World Report rankings aren’t everything… And classes vary *everywhere* largely based on professors as individuals, not as institutions.
Advice: If you don’t have something nice, or not so whiny, or not so sexist, or not so alienating to say, don’t say anything at all.
@Anonymous Here: http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2012/02/16/barnard-cu-legally-bound-relationship-not-always-certain-students
Barnard currently pays Columbia $5 million annually for cross-registration & library use privileges. Barnard additionally pays Columbia a contractually determined amount for athletics & internet.
@Anonymous When are they going to kick PrezBo out of the University?? Just look at him, he clearly doesn’t belong. Every time I see a new picture I just think. What??? Why is he still at the school??? Time to leave Prezbo, You do not fit in, you have never fitted in anywhere.
@GS '16 AGREED!!!!!! he is not as cute as the other deans and his voice is totally flat on their latest single…
@Anonymous “The disappointment that the President will not be speaking at their commencement ceremony is understandable. Regardless of this disappointment, the misogynistic comments that have bombarded the Internet are unacceptable, degrading, and offensive, not only to Barnard women, but to women everywhere.”
Amazing I’m seeing this rhetorical technique yet again; Senator Gillibrand used it recently in response to Limbaugh’s comments. You take something that offends a specific woman or group of women in one context and expand it into something that is hateful to all women “everywhere.” I consider it a form of hyper-exaggeration and victimization meant to unify women in an “us” vs. “them” showdown. Check out how Gillibrand did the same thing:
http://www.democratsenators.org/o/44/t/11899/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=426
“Using words like “slut” and “prostitute,” he denigrated the brave women like Sandra Fluke who’ve stood up for their rights.” She takes the commentary Limbaugh made and argues that it denigrated all brave women who have stood up for their rights at some point. It’s completely misleading and wrong but serves a useful political purpose. For Gillibrand it’s to bolster her female support, I suppose for your association it does the same.
This is just a personal take on it, but I am an undergrad between 18-22 so like your president Deborah Spar suggested, you should dismiss my opinion from that alone.
@Similarities “The disappointment that the President will not be speaking at their commencement ceremony is understandable. Regardless of this disappointment, the misogynistic comments that have bombarded the Internet are unacceptable, degrading, and offensive, not only to Barnard women, but to women everywhere.”
Amazing I’m seeing this rhetorical technique yet again; Senator Gillibrand used it recently in response to Limbaugh’s comments. You take something that offends a specific woman or group of women in one context and expand it into something that is hateful to all women “everywhere.” I consider it a form of hyper-exaggeration and victimization meant to unify women in an “us” vs. “them” showdown. Check out how Gillibrand did the same thing:
http://www.democratsenators.org/o/44/t/11899/petition.jsp?petition_KEY=426
“Using words like “slut” and “prostitute,” he denigrated the brave women like Sandra Fluke who’ve stood up for their rights.”
Gillibrand takes the commentary Limbaugh made and argues that it denigrated all brave women who have stood up for their rights at some point. It’s completely misleading and exaggerated but serves a useful political purpose. For Gillibrand it’s to bolster her female support. My guess is that for your association, it does the same.
This is just a personal take on it, but I am an undergrad between 18-22 so like your president Deborah Spar suggested, you should dismiss my opinion from that alone.
@Anonymous I’m sorry but, what?
On Rush Limbaugh’s comments:
“What does it say about the college coed . . . who goes before a congressional committee and essentially says that she must be paid to have sex?” Mr. Limbaugh asked on his Wednesday program. He said this makes her a “slut” and “prostitute.”
Limbaugh’s comments state that if a woman believes it is her right to have access to contraception this makes her a slut.
I am not on contraception. I am not sexually active. I am a woman who has stood up for her rights. I believe Limbaugh’s comments denigrate women. The underlying implication is that women who have sex without the intention of having a baby are sluts/prostitutes. I don’t think it is a hyper-exaggeration to say that this comment affects all women, as it reflects an extremely negative, and apparently still kickin’, view towards women. Limbaugh’s expression of this view on the public and national stage propels it beyond the woman he was speaking to and beyond college coeds similar to her.
Similarly, the hateful comments toward Barnard students referenced in that statement are hateful to women beyond our University bubble.
@Anonymous U mad, bro?
@Alum - SEAS '08 I have to admit, every time I hear that something controversial has gone down back at CU, I tend to snigger. We had plenty of that in my time – the Minutemen, Ahmadinejad, the hunger strikes, to name a few – and it looks like the current generation doesn’t disappoint….apparently the CC and SEAS deans both had to stand down, or were in trouble? Good ‘ol CU.
Look, it sounds like all of this comes down to basic envy. Basic, childish envy. You can dress it any way you like, get into specifics and technicalities, but the motivator behind everything simply seems to be one of our loveable deadly sins. And yeah, even Ivy league students fall victim to it, regardless of how smart or capable we all are. I don’t blame Prezbo for trying to shrug it off, and the Times was right for calling it a sibling rivalry.
I saw a little bit of that elitism while I was in SEAS, but it stopped bothering me for a while. I suspect that it might be a New York thing – this city is overly concerned with status – but who knows, perhaps its just the Columbia culture.
p.s. I was an architecture minor, so I had to take classes at Barnard by default. There is no undergraduate program at Columbia. Also WBAR, at which I was a DJ, was much more collegiate, and indeed “college radio” than the Columbia station. I’m so happy I got to do a show there for several years.
@Anonymous Sorry, too lazy to wade ~1000 shit posts but I seriously hope you guys aren’t conflating Barnard hate with some kind of feminist movement. A lot of the people who bash Barnard are women.
@Chris Silverberg Obamanard as explained by V114:
CU: This is an anti-anti-anti-anti protest! We’re protesting a protest we abhor! So come and join our anti-anti protest! We’ll get no rest ’til we protest it some more!
BC: Raise your Barnard bear! Unfurl your hair for lady liberty! Strong beautiful, strong beautiful (strong and beautiful oooo), strong beautiful (you’re strong, you’re strong, you’re strong, you’re beautiful, beautiful yeah!)
Asshole Commenters: Well, woman, won’t you be mine tonight, bitch please. On your knees!
And whoever started this: https://www.facebook.com/groups/190678011041513/ = “Hate blinds our eyes, raising hell as the skies slowly burn. How can one person change Columbia alone? Please give me some answers and show me what to do. Is there any way to save the day and show the world what’s true”
@CC'12 female If I hear the world misogynistic one more time, I’m going to flip a shit.
Just because we have an issue with the school across the street, which happens to be women, doesn’t mean our issue is with women! It is because you decide to pull the gender card every time we have an issue with you, that people make these comments. I don’t agree they’re right, but I do understand them. Take a second to think about this issue if it were a specific race instead of a gender at Barnard. Not every issue is about the race, but it is impossible to talk about Barnard without obviously talking about a group of women. You chose to make your gender the thing you identify with. That doesn’t mean that’s how everyone identifies you.
Let me sum up Columbia’s issue with Barnard. We feel used. You use our facilities, our reputation, and take our classes, with no distinction between the schools on our part. In this way, you claim you are part of CU, when you get a benefit. On our end, we feel we get little in return. I’ve been in Barnard classes. There is an absolute priority to Barnard students. Barnard women join our groups, and technically, CU isn’t even allowed to charge them under Barnard’s rules. Unless we are specifically Barnard run, with specific ratios of Barnard students in leadership, we can’t get Barnard funding. CU? There are Barnard-run groups that get CU funds (the ones generated from our tuition), and to my knowledge, there are no such rules on our part. This non-reciprocal relationship is the basis of this ongoing fight. Columbia men are treated like criminals on BC campus, for example, Barnard’s reason for not choosing equal dorm access for both schools. If you feel such a desire to be independent, please do so. I’m sure we would like to see what happens.
@Dan Aprahamian, SEAS '12 Let’s address some points one by one:
1) “Just because we have an issue with the school across the street, which happens to be women, doesn’t mean our issue is with women!”
Unfortunately, when you have people calling Barnard student cum-dumpsters, and using other foul language, the argument comes off as misogynistic. If you don’t want you argument to be treated as such, I suggest you tell your colleagues to stop using those terms. I agree with you (and with the commentor that posted above) that there are disagreements here that have nothing to do with sex, and that the Barnard v. Columbia debate has been mixed with a sexism debate, and that they should be separate, but it was Columbia students that resorted to foul language while trying to make an argument.
2) “You use our facilities, our reputation, and take our classes, with no distinction between the schools on our part. In this way, you claim you are part of CU, when you get a benefit. ”
As others have pointed out, Barnard pays Columbia for this. Which means that Barnard students are effectively paying with their tuition for this.
Also, Columbia students can take classes at Barnard as well. I did last semester. I am also currently living at Barnard, and paying less than my suite mates because I get to pay Columbia housing rates instead of Barnard’s (about $600 less per year). The sharing goes both ways. In some way, Barnard is actually getting the short end of the stick.
3) “Barnard women join our groups, and technically, CU isn’t even allowed to charge them under Barnard’s rules.”
Columbia men and women also join Barnard groups. I am president of a Barnard group. Not really seeing your point.
4) “Unless we are specifically Barnard run, with specific ratios of Barnard students in leadership, we can’t get Barnard funding. CU? There are Barnard-run groups that get CU funds (the ones generated from our tuition), and to my knowledge, there are no such rules on our part. ”
Multiple points on this:
– Funding via FaCU is broken down based on the ratios between students. So SGA is receiving funding that is proportional to the BC population. Barnard is effectively paying for their own student groups.
– While FaCU may break down evenly among classes, Barnard overall has less money than Columbia.
– Requirement #4 for an ABC recognized group: “Have a membership consisting of two-thirds (2/3) Columbia College and/or the School of Engineering and Applied Science and/or General Studies undergraduate students. Dually recognized groups (i.e. recognized by both SGA and ABC) must have a membership consisting of at least one-half (1/2) Columbia College and/or School of Engineering and Applied Science and/or General Studies undergraduate students;”
– Requirement #5 for an ABC recognized group: “Have at least one of the president, vice-president, or treasurer be a full-time student of Columbia College, the School of Engineering and Applied Science, or School of General Studies. This person will be required to complete Treasurer’s Training at the start of the academic year;”
5) “Columbia men are treated like criminals on BC campus, for example, Barnard’s reason for not choosing equal dorm access for both schools.”
As someone who lives at Barnard, has taken a class a Barnard, runs a Barnard Organization, and spends maybe more time on Barnard’s campus than Columbia’s, I can honestly say that while I have gotten strange looks, it is the exception, not the norm. Honestly, my experiences with Barnard Facilities and Res Life on a personal level have all been fantastic. The security guards are all friendly to me, facilities has always been helpful, and Barnard Housing was 10x more helpful than Columbia’s. The only times I have ever had problems at Barnard (and the one area where I think the sharing falls through) is based in how everything at Barnard is tied to an E-Bear account, which, as a Columbia student, I do not have. But otherwise, the relationship has been amicable.
As far as the housing swipe access thing, while I think that there are areas for compromise, one needs to remember that there are people who attend Barnard because it is a women’s college. In some cases, it is the only way they can attend college and still abide by their religious beliefs.
@Dan Aprahamian, SEAS '12 Let’s address some points one by one:
1) “Just because we have an issue with the school across the street, which happens to be women, doesn’t mean our issue is with women!”
Unfortunately, when you have people calling Barnard student terrible names, and using other foul language, the argument comes off as misogynistic. If you don’t want you argument to be treated as such, I suggest you tell your colleagues to stop using those terms. I agree with you (and with the commentor that posted above) that there are disagreements here that have nothing to do with sex, and that the Barnard v. Columbia debate has been mixed with a sexism debate, and that they should be separate, but it was Columbia students that resorted to foul language while trying to make an argument.
2) “You use our facilities, our reputation, and take our classes, with no distinction between the schools on our part. In this way, you claim you are part of CU, when you get a benefit. ”
As others have pointed out, Barnard pays Columbia for this. Which means that Barnard students are effectively paying with their tuition for this.
Also, Columbia students can take classes at Barnard as well. I did last semester. I am also currently living at Barnard, and paying less than my suite mates because I get to pay Columbia housing rates instead of Barnard’s (about $600 less per year). The sharing goes both ways. In some way, Barnard is actually getting the short end of the stick.
3) “Barnard women join our groups, and technically, CU isn’t even allowed to charge them under Barnard’s rules.”
Columbia men and women also join Barnard groups. I am president of a Barnard group. Not really seeing your point.
4) “Unless we are specifically Barnard run, with specific ratios of Barnard students in leadership, we can’t get Barnard funding. CU? There are Barnard-run groups that get CU funds (the ones generated from our tuition), and to my knowledge, there are no such rules on our part. ”
Multiple points on this:
– Funding via FaCU is broken down based on the ratios between students. So SGA is receiving funding that is proportional to the BC population. Barnard is effectively paying for their own student groups.
– While FaCU may break down evenly among classes, Barnard overall has less money than Columbia.
– Requirement #4 for an ABC recognized group: “Have a membership consisting of two-thirds (2/3) Columbia College and/or the School of Engineering and Applied Science and/or General Studies undergraduate students. Dually recognized groups (i.e. recognized by both SGA and ABC) must have a membership consisting of at least one-half (1/2) Columbia College and/or School of Engineering and Applied Science and/or General Studies undergraduate students;”
– Requirement #5 for an ABC recognized group: “Have at least one of the president, vice-president, or treasurer be a full-time student of Columbia College, the School of Engineering and Applied Science, or School of General Studies. This person will be required to complete Treasurer’s Training at the start of the academic year;”
5) “Columbia men are treated like criminals on BC campus, for example, Barnard’s reason for not choosing equal dorm access for both schools.”
As someone who lives at Barnard, has taken a class a Barnard, runs a Barnard Organization, and spends maybe more time on Barnard’s campus than Columbia’s, I can honestly say that while I have gotten strange looks, it is the exception, not the norm. Honestly, my experiences with Barnard Facilities and Res Life on a personal level have all been fantastic. The security guards are all friendly to me, facilities has always been helpful, and Barnard Housing was 10x more helpful than Columbia’s. The only times I have ever had problems at Barnard (and the one area where I think the sharing falls through) is based in how everything at Barnard is tied to an E-Bear account, which, as a Columbia student, I do not have. But otherwise, the relationship has been amicable.
As far as the housing swipe access thing, while I think that there are areas for compromise, one needs to remember that there are people who attend Barnard because it is a women’s college. In some cases, it is the only way they can attend college and still abide by their religious beliefs.
@A.M. BC 12 Dan, great post! I regret that we’ve never met. You seem genuinely awesome and its comments like these that can remind us that the hurtful and or misguided comments here stem from a relative few Barnard and Columbia students. Props to you!
@Please read > Unfortunately, when you have people calling Barnard student terrible names, and using other foul language, the argument comes off as misogynistic. If you don’t want you argument to be treated as such, I suggest you tell your colleagues to stop using those terms.
So many otherwise solid arguments are predicated on this assumption. You assume that, because a blog article contains anonymous misogynistic statements in the text boxes below it, and these statements use proper nouns that fit the context:
1) The comment was written by a CC or SEAS male.
2) This sentiment reflects CC or SEAS as a whole, or most of CC or SEAS, or even a substantial minority of CC or SEAS.
3) There is a realistic ratio of comments:comment authors.
These assumptions seem reasonable but ignore the peculiarities of cyber culture (ever heard of 4chan? never mind, forget it, you’re better off if you haven’t). There is a huge elephant in the room whenever a story breaks that polarizes CC/Seas and Barnard in any way. Actually, two elephants that are sometimes conflated. One is the real issue of sexism, and the other is the real issue of CC snobbery and perceived entitlement. This ticking bomb is a green light for bored people on the internet–usually immature boys who need not harbor misogynistic sentiments. They do, however, need to be shitty enough to not care about the people their comments will hurt, harbor a perverse love of watching shit blow up, and know exactly which buttons to push. They don’t want to get a point across. They want to piss off Barnard students. And they have. This story is played out over and over in the context of other sensitive topics (race, sexual orientation).
So while these comments do correspond to existing sentiments among CC students, they don’t serve as evidence to point to it. If just one CC student exists with the callousness and free time to incite a firestorm like this one, he’ll sniff it out and pounce. This “a few bad apples” argument holds in the context of cyberculture because the motivation to make such inflammatory statements is separate from the content of the statement.
@Symore Butts anyone wanna get dinner in a bit?
@Seymore Butts anyone wanna get dinner in a bit?
@Seymore Sanyone wanna get dinner in a bit?
@Seymore anyone wanna get dinner in a bit? kinda hungry
@Anonymous What elitist drivel.
@Every time I read Bwog comments Trolls. Trolls everywhere.
@SEAS ‘12 Haven’t had time to keep up with this story but just read some comments in previous posts and thought I’d add my perspective.
Full disclosure, my bias naturally leans toward BC since they’ve almost always been nicer and more friendly to me and my friends and I’ve met more of them out at bars around campus than I have CC girls (or guys). This is just a generalization based on my sample size.
Obama’s perceived slight of CC has led a lot of commenters to trash-talk the academic quality of both schools. Barnard is an excellent, even world-class, school, but make no mistake that while Barnard may have better intangibles like advising etc, Columbia College is an academically superior institution, if only because of resources and money. This effect may not be as pronounced in the humanities and social sciences, but it is glaringly apparent in math/science (which are still very good, just not at CC’s level), again, mostly because of the money/resources involved at a smaller school.
As an example, I’m an applied physics major, and I’ve TA’d and graded for calculus classes at both CC and Barnard. Based on my experience, I can say that CC’s calculus courses have objectively more difficult exams and cover more material at a greater depth than their BC counterparts. From my experience only, the grade distributions were nearly always roughly the same, which would suggest that the level of math understanding in the Barnard courses were inferior to the CC ones. This isn’t a comment about gender—women are mathematically just as capable as men and some BC girls may in fact have been in the CC courses—it’s a comment about academic quality between the schools in a specific subject. That said, I’m sure many isolated Barnard girls kick ass in many math/science CC classes.
It’s important for Barnard girls to understand the perspective of CC students, especially CC girls who kinda get screwed socially by the gender imbalance here. This isn’t an excuse for the despicable language in the comments, but I think what may be frustrating for CC kids is that with the exception of a few isolated departments (dance, architecture), there are very few ways for them to take advantage of the Columbia/Barnard relationship. The advantages are much more in favor of Barnard, and so it might smart a bit more when Obama does decide to come, but not to his collegiate alma mater. A lot of frustration comes out, horrible words are used that are then picked up by the media, and it’s a positive feedback loop.
Other than people just being nicer to people in anonymous online forums, I’m not sure there are any easy, realistic solutions (Barnard cutting CU ties is not realistic). So the best we can do right now is try to understand each side’s perspective. In the meantime, let’s all celebrate the fact that the president will be speaking in front of Butler in a few short months, and we won’t be in here studying for midterms any more.
@There are easy calculus classes at Barnard? Then why the fuck did I have to take calc I and III at columbia? DAMNIT.
– BC’13
@Anonymous YES! this is exactly how i feel. thank you
@Anonymous Um…Does Barnard have its own calculus classes?
http://math.barnard.edu/catalogue/department/mathematics/courses
Also– Barnard pay a hefty monetary fee to Columbia for the advantages of the BC:CU relationship. CU does not pay Barnard a fee for the use of its services. CC students can take advantage of registering for almost any BC class–though getting into a class may be harder depending upon whether or not it is a requirement for a BC major, but in my experience there are similar difficulties with certain Columbia classes that are CC/SEAS major requirements. Columbia has more classes to offer than Columbia, by nature of its larger size, larger # of institutions, and larger resources in general..but I think that on the whole BC and CC students have a relatively equal pool of classes from which to choose.
@CC girl people keep talking about this “hefty monetary fee”, do you have any actual documentation for it?
@Anonymous WikiCU has a wealth of information on this topic.
http://www.wikicu.com/Columbia-Barnard_relationship
Regarding the relationship in general:
Simply put, Barnard is institutionally independent, while academically and socially linked to Columbia. Institutionally, Barnard has its own board of trustees which oversees the school’s operation, its own endowment, its own faculty, its own campus (Columbia does not share ownership of any of Barnard’s campus buildings), and its own administration.
Regarding the fees:
“There are few freebies between the school- Barnard has to pay Columbia for access to utilities, the libraries, and other facilities such as Lerner. Columbia University does not handle admissions for Barnard, nor does it spend money on or collect money from Barnard students. The same goes for Barnard College and Columbia students. ”
And interesting bit of history regarding our degrees:
“Barnard degrees differ from the Columbia College diploma in that they are signed by both the University President and the Barnard College President, and carry the official seals of both institutions. This is possibly a vestige of Columbia policy predating the foundation of Barnard – in 1883, the Trustees resolved to grant a Columbia degree to women who sat for, and passed the requisite exams at Columbia, although they would not be allowed to enroll as students (the “Plan for the Education of Women in Connection to Columbia College”). They would have to study the material on their own. It seems that once Barnard College was founded, this diploma privilege was simply transferred to the new school, and the practice continues to this day.”
I don’t see any up to date relevant sources cited for this information, so take it with a grain of sault I suppose
@Yup I went to Barnards recent finance presentation and it was something in the realm of 4 million dollars a year.
@Anonymous Real question though–DOES Barnard have its own Calc classes?
From the BC math department website’s course listings it appears they are all at Columbia. I have not taken Calc here, so please someone correct me if I’m wrong as I genuinely want to know.
@CC girl this comment. is perfect. thank you.
@CC girl also, please date me, SEAS guy
@Anonymous This is wrong. There are no calculus classes at Barnard. There is no math department at Barnard…..
@Anonymous And to further prove my point, here is the course catalogue from the Barnard math major website. As you can see, all math classes are at Columbia:
http://math.barnard.edu/catalogue/department/mathematics/courses
@BC math major Just for some clarification: there IS a math department at Barnard. Certain faculty–Professors Dusa McDuff, Walter Neumann, and Dave Bayer, for example, are Barnard faculty. That is, they’re employed by Barnard. Their offices, however, are in the Mathematics building on the Columbia classes, and ALL math classes (at either school) are either V, W, or G (whatever that prefix means)–not BC or CC. So a Barnard calc class would show up here: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/sel/MATB_Spring2012.html not here: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/bulletin/uwb/, and would be taught by Neumann, de Silva, Bayer, McDuff, or Thurston. What the OP said about Calc@Barnard being easier than Calc@CC I can’t verify, since (I believe) I only ever took calc at Columbia, but a quick search of the CU directory of classes shows that one section of Calc II was the only calc class taught at Barnard in this academic year. #mathnerd #kindaunrelatedrant
@Anonymous WHY CAN’T WE ALL JUST BE STUDENTS?
@Bad TROLL!! Back to your bridge!!!
@Anonymous Gladys is a boss.
@anon Can I just point out the giant irony of this situation? Rush Limbaugh demeans a woman by calling her a slut, quite unrelated to the matter at hand. Outrage ensues. This may have played a role in Obama’s decision to address an all-women’s college, so he picks Barnard. Outrage ensues, and CC students demean Barnard students by calling them sluts and jizz buckets and cum dumpsters, quite unrelated to the matter at hand.
–
This is an incredibly depressing cycle. Guys, we’re better than Rush Limbaugh.
@Let'stalkaboutimportantshit So what does everyone think about the Iranian nuclear situation? And how about abortion and the death penalty – that stuff is pretty controversial, huh? #Mylifeisnotbarnardorcolumbia…it’slife!
@A PARABLE I present to you a simple parable for the clarification of the issue at hand starring Columbia, Barnard, and Barack Obama as simple, normal, and fallible New Yorkers.
Two girls live in a swank apartment on the Upper West Side. Their names are Colleen and Barbie (see what I did there?), and they’ve lived a pretty decent life together for some time. Colleen actually owns the place, but has been happy to have Barbie live with her, because she provides some good company and generally isn’t a bad roommate. A few years ago, Colleen had a short and bumpy relationship with this guy named Barry. Barry didn’t really mean all that much to Colleen, and their relationship was never a real fit. They had some pretty serious arguments. One time, Colleen locked Barry out of the apartment and he had to spend the night in the hallway because he was between apartments and didn’t have anywhere else to go. Barry and Colleen eventually ended on “meh” terms and Barry always told his friends that Colleen was a pretty serious pain in the ass.
Years later, Barbie and Colleen still live together. Barry and Barbie run into each other while shopping at Westside. Barry is now the owner of a popular and successful new company and he seems way more charming than Barbie remembers him being. Barry asks Barbie out for dinner and she accepts the invitation. She knows that Colleen probably won’t be too keen on the idea, but it’s been a few years so how bad could it be? Later it comes out that Barbie has a date with Barry and Colleen gets pissed off. She’s run into Barry since they broke up and is aware of Barry’s new-and-improved self. While she’s partly jealous of Barbie, she’s also partly happy for her roommate, but all that comes out in the first instant is a nasty mix of “why do you have to chase after my old boyfriends??” “you never do your share of the dishes!” “this is my apartment anyhow so you can just move out if you want to be such a bitch!” It’s not pretty, and some pretty deep-seeded shit comes out. Eventually the tensions cool, and Colleen begins to tell herself that she doesn’t really care. This has just been another excuse to vent some typical pent-up roommate resentment. Barry and Barbie have their dinner and follow it up with some hot and heavy bedroom dancing back at Barbie’s place. Colleen, who is pretty much over the whole thing by now, listens through the wall, because she’s just the kind of curiously twisted person who wants to find out what she’s missing.
A few weeks have passed. Everything is back to normal between Colleen and Barbie. Barry was only a one night stand and his name has only jokingly popped up in conversation a few times. The girls have moved on realizing that, all things aside, they are pretty decent roommates after all. Little bickering will inevitably pop up here and there, but nobody is moving out any time soon…
Moral of the story: who gives a shit?
@What an awful parable... If all the Columbia students had slept with Obama before he decided to speak at Barnard’s commencement, trust me, we wouldn’t care.
@Anonymous I’m exhausted just thinking about how much time it would take to explain the many, many crucial differences between the hubbub surrounding Obama’s commencement address and your story about star-crossed yuppies. Did you add a variable to account for the validation of a college degree? The effect of mass media and cyberculture?
And even within the bounds of my imagination, some adjustments are necessary. Colleen should be regarded by society as more popular, more intelligent, and more meritorious despite the fact that Barbie shares many of those characteristics. Barbie should harbor some stubborn insecurities that occasionally comes to the surface when they argue. Colleen should vacillate between put-downs and empty-sounding validation. Then Barbie needs to open her mailbox one morning and find it filled with angry notes, written in crayon, insulting her for being a fat slut and claiming that Colleen agrees “cuz she like totally said so at this one thing we were both at.” Then Barbie needs to have everyone in the neighborhood sign a petition denouncing Colleen for these crude attacks that distort her actual sentiment towards Barbie but nevertheless convey at least some truths.
@Anonymous “football throwing assholes”
sexist JOKE that
1) assumes people at womens colleges dont throw footballs
2) and also under original author’s presumption that without men there wouldn’t be football throwing, that men are assholes.
If you call me and my bros assholes for throwing a football, I have every right to make Barnard jokes.
@CC guy First of all, two wrongs don’t make a right. Second of all, there’s an obvious difference between calling a guy an asshole and calling a girl a worthless cum dumpster. Which one would you rather be called. Personally, I’d feel validated if a girl called me an asshole. But I’d feel like shit if she called me a pathetic, pimply mouth-breather who will probably live in his mom’s basement until he’s thirty, jerking it to lesbian manga porn.
There are plenty of arguments to be made, but this isn’t one of them.
@SD GEt over this stupid debate now….there are more important things in life.
@AS GEt over this stupid debate now….there are more important things in life.
@Anonymous Dear Columbia,
I love you all, I really do. I genuinely believe we are all intelligent, hard working, determined, caring, kick ass individuals. Really. I am a proud Barnard student–proud of my achievements, and of my character. And I am proud of my Columbia University peers. We all rock and should be damn proud of ourselves!
We have no doubt earned our places here. We rose to the top of our high school classes, exuded passion in our efforts within and outside of academics, and are so privileged to have the opportunity to be a part of one of the most diverse and enriching higher educational communities in the world.
We are privileged with the opportunities available to us here. But we are not “better.” Better than what? at what? than whom?
It cannot be denied that we have all worked incredibly hard to be here. But we have not necessarily “better,” we have not necessarily worked “harder” than anyone. I would not turn to my friend who worked her ASS OFF to overcome her personal struggles and tell her that I am “better” or that I worked “harder” because I attend Barnard College of Columbia University, while she attends a community college in our hometown. Why? Because it’s not true. She is every bit as intelligent, as hard working, and as “deserving” as I am. The fact that we ended up in different places, one which society has a tendency to view as superior based upon prestige, ultimately means nothing about she and I as individuals. It simply means that I am lucky and should be grateful to have the privilege of attending a school that can afford me so many opportunities, where I have access to outstanding professors and inspiring peers. As for my friend? She feels lucky too. She loved her community college regardless of how others might view it. She had outstanding professors too. She started her own company last fall and she is doing something that she loves. What more could any of us ask for? I have no doubt she’d have succeeded just as well at Columbia, but that might not have even been what she wanted. If you, in general, love and value the time that you have spent at Columbia and if your degree affords you the opportunity to pursue something that you love, what else matters? We have all been given an incredible opportunity. If Columbia (including Barnard) is a wonderful and unique place (which I believe it is) it is because WE make it so. And we can’t accomplish that (nor anything) by arguing over who “deserves” to be here and why. We are here. We are lucky to be here. Enjoy it. Four years go by so quickly.
with Love,
A.M.
@nwbar Bwog should hold every comment with a percent sign in it for moderation to ensure that I don’t have to read any more whining about admission rates.
@Harmony Hunter There is no Harmony to be found here..
@Hah So many jimmies getting rustled.
@Anonymous I hope everyone realizes what a first world problem this is. If the students of this university could get this angry about, I don’t know, genocides, the children who don’t even have the opportunity to go to college (or any school for that matter), or the countless other real problems that humans face, instead of making groups about changing what someone’s diploma says, then we would have something to be proud of. Yes, this effects all of us at the university, but if you’re going to act like some personal injustice has been done to you because someone chose to speak at a different college than your own, why don’t you take a second and think about the people in the world who can’t even DREAM of going to college, and then decide whether your outrage is justified.
@I'd rather have Mitch Daniels for commencement speaker.
(proceed to downvote, though you probably don’t know who I’m talking about)
@As with the former threads... TLDR
Issue that matters: spring break in t-2 days
@Anonymous Actually, no, I’ve never met anyone who regretted going to an Ivy League school because they had an unhappy four years there. I’m sure they exist, but I’m sure the number is comparable to the number of people who regretted foregoing an Ivy.
It’s not simply a matter of turning down prestige. It’s turning down an instrument that will help you achieve your goals. Degrees may be inherently meaningless, but they hugely affect job prospects. If Barnard and CC educations are so similar, and one is more than marginally more useful in obtaining career advantages (think outside the corporate ladder), then you should have a pretty damn compelling reason to pick BC over CC. I’m sorry if my singling out gynecological care seemed like I was trivializing women’s issues, but it rang particularly false.
@Anonymous This is partially in response to your comment, and partially in response to the whole discussion.
An institution’s prestige is not the only, or even the most important, instrument for future career success. Perhaps this is not what you’re saying, and if not I apologize, but are you willing to tell people publicly that you chose Columbia solely or even mostly for its prestige?
There is a lot to be said for practicality and pragmatism. Many hundreds of brilliant students go to less expensive (and yes, even if they can afford “better”) institutions because of a cost-benefit analysis. If one believes that attending a cheaper but less prestigious school over an Ivy will allow them to save money, both presently and on future student loans, while sacrificing little in terms of future career prospects–this is a smart choice. In fact, choosing the less prestigious school may afford a great student even better opportunities because it may be easier to stand out amongst their peers, there may be less psychological cost to their education because the atmosphere isn’t as stressful or competitive, and as a result they will perform better. This is not “cheating” the system. It is wise and pragmatic.
In choosing BC, many students felt that CC or SEAS was not a good fit for them. This doesn’t mean they are less qualified or intelligent. A CC student may feel the same way about Barnard being a poor fit for them individually. It is not unwise to forego “prestige” to attend a College where you feel you will be happier, and possibly more successful as a result.
BC and CC are different and BC and CC students DO have differing undergraduate experiences. It is not Barnard’s fault if you feel the Columbia administration does not do enough for CC students and I think this is a separate issue from the issue of the Barnard Columbia relationship. I really don’t understand the argument that the current relationship with Barnard decreases the value of a Columbia University education.
This isn’t meant to be offensive…but perhaps many are just disappointed that the effort, work, time and money they poured into applying to college hasn’t seemed worth it as a whole at Columbia, regardless of Barnard’s existence.
@Anonymous To clarify my example of the student who decides to go to state school:
in this example state school is a wise choice because if the combination of less stressful/competitive environment, more opportunities to stand out in your department, and greater happiness overall will likely lead to great success at the chosen school. I argue that this ability to stand out and do unique and impressive things, even if you’re at a less prestigious school, will be a HUGE advantage in the job market. It will most likely be a greater advantage than that enjoyed by a student who attended a very prestigious school and did well, but perhaps did not stand out as impressively with his/her academic endeavors.
Just something to ponder when we think about Columbia and about our degrees. Is Columbia’s reputation valuable to us? Certainly. But Columbia’s style isn’t for everyone, even the most brilliant of students might find more success elsewhere.
@oh man oh man This is so great.
Can we all just stop for a second and agree that the funniest part of this whole issue is how many collective hours have been wasted on Bwog between writing offensive comments, reading them, replying to them, trying to moderate between the two, and trolling for reactions?
I can think of 3 explanations for this:
1)Ashton Kutcher is going to send out an email announcing that we’ve all been Punk’d.
2) Some brilliant psych students decided to lower the curve of the entire university by trolling bwog during midterms so other students waste their time on the bwog comment sections.
3) CU actually has this many petty students.
@BC 11 Here’s the thing – it’s a freaking graduation speech. Look it up online afterward if it’s such a big deal to you. Having graduated just last year, I feel like my classmates and I are the most entitled to be upset about this situation, particularly given that the classes before us got Hillary and Meryl, respectively. Instead, I am so happy to be off campus for this whole ordeal. Maybe you should all take a big step back and recognize that whining about bureaucratic bs and putting others down to deal with your pathetic insecurities are really very immature ways to deal with your frustrations.
@Anonymous Sibling rivalry is good for both colleges.
@Anonymous Sibling rivalry makes each college better. Nasty, degrading comments not helpful.
@Anonymous To be fair, 25% vs 6% is still no small discrepancy, and I think it’s safe to say that the selection bias doesn’t account for all of it. There are plenty of other objective metrics. Standardized test scores, class rank, academic awards, achievements in music, in art, and yes, in athletics. Barnard is a fantastic school. But arguing that it’s just as prestigious requires ignoring a mountain of evidence embedded in American history (breakthroughs that defined the field of modern genetics, for example. Remember Thomas Hunt Morgan’s white eyed fruit flies from high school bio? What about the Manhattan project? The numerous Nobel laureate alumni and faculty?).
@Anonymous What’s your point exactly?
I don’t think anyone denies that Columbia is prestigious and a great school.
Also–i’d like to point out that the so called “objective” factors of admission aren’t really objective at all.
Class rank? test scores? These are no less arbitrary markers of one’s intelligence than the acceptance rates which they contribute to.
@aslkjfasofijwf For the last time, this isn’t an argument about which school requires a student to be “smarter.” It’s MORE DIFFICULT to get the grades, awards, etc. that distinguish a typical CC student from a typical Barnard student. CC students, on average, have worked harder to earn their spot. It’s an eye-catching, almost universally-coveted distinction. There’s an undeniable appeal associated with having an ivy league diploma, and that accounts for the competitive admissions process at Columbia. This isn’t about intelligence. God dammit, stop attacking the argument you want to attack and read the words in front of you.
@Anonymous also, how are academic, athletic, or arts based awards objective?
That’s not to say that these accomplishments don’t mean anything. But the fact that one person receives an award while another doesn’t is not an objective measure of that person’s success relative to the other’s (especially given that person might not have applied or even been eligible for a variety of reasons other than talent).
College acceptance rates don’t mean much.
@CC'12 Hey everyone. Since I know a lot of people are reading this I want to say one thing: please watch “Community” on NBC when it returns March 15th at 8pm EST. This show is fighting for ratings, and it is a very funny and brilliant show that I would like to see stay on the air. It’s like “30 Rock” but smarter and even more meta. Kthnxbai! #sixseasonsandamovie
@columbia guy i would date a barnard girl over a columbia girl in no time
especially after this whole thing
@The Role of Bwog “However, we do not view ourselves as arbitrators. Bwog comments are a mirror held up to the student population, soberly reflecting our microcosm of society with all of its imperfections intact.”
What a bunch of bull. You’re telling me that internet comments are a 100% accurate indicator of all students on campus? You must really think highly of yourself, Bwog. You don’t realize you’re wielding a funhouse mirror.
This is just an attempt to shirk the responsibility of a user-content dependent website from moderating or banning trolls and enforcing a level of decency. That’s all we’re asking for, decency. You do not let the loudest, most aggravating voice to drown out the rest of us. You do not claim to represent the Columbia community while washing your hands of the responsibility of providing leadership.
Unfortunately, you are in an influential position. Stuff went to shit under *your* watch. What are you gonna do about it next time this happens? Do nothing?
@Anonymous Yes, we got into the NYT because of how awful our comments were. But nobody is really going to listen or read your thoughts seriously if you don’t risk something, pay some price. Meaning, you gotta express your ideas in the physical world, risk your identity, if you’re at all serious about changing the currently unhealthy relationship between Barnard and Columbia. Cause I know I definitely tl;dr this whoooole comment thread. (I wouldn’t blame anybody if this is never read.)
@CC '14 So a potential solution to this is a separate but equal system in which Barnard and Columbia both have explicitly equal systems and don’t have to share them amongst each other, despite living in close proximity to each other?
Oh my, that has worked out so well in the past!
@Let's face it This is really about Barnard women taking Columbia men :-D
@cc'14 god I go to school with a bunch of idiots.
1) get over the fact that Prez Obama is being politically astute in choosing Barnard over us, particularly in the midst of all the recent brouhaha over women’s rights (the answer is yes, support ’em);
2) reconcile that he likely never will choose us, because he hated it here and this event (I’d argue)perhaps reflects one reason why: one of the disgusting facets of that makes up the slimy underbelly of Columbia’s ugly social commentary/scene
3) Bwog, for fuck’s sake: don’t deny your culpability in the matter, what with all the baiting done on here (by which I mean in the posts, not the comments, though there’s certainly a multitude of trolling there, too)
3) stop with the Barnard bashing. I’m so, so sick of it. You have no idea.
@Anonymous http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vsSm5YWJ60
@Anonymous who needs feminism with asses like that
@Anonymous Bwog trolls: level infinity
@Hannah Goldstein some food for thought:
1) There is a 1:1 exchange rate between Barnard and Columbia class students./for every Barnard student who takes a class at Columbia, a Columbia student takes a class at Barnard. That is true and has been true for the recent past.
1a) Barnard is home to the *entire Columbia undergraduate architecture program,* as well as basically all of the urban studies, dance, education, and theater programs.
2) People keep saying, “You didn’t earn the right to go here,” even in the face of points like our graduating with the same grades as more “official” (for lack of better word) Columbians. You are basically implying, then, that high school success/college apps are a better indicator of college success (which comprises their total purpose) than, well, college success. This seems silly to me.
@Anonymous 1. Where are you getting these statistics? I’d like to see them.
2. Lol, if you’re going to study Architecture then don’t apply to Columbia. It’s not like removing the ability for a student to study Architecture (or any of those other Barnard-only majors) at Columbia removes a student’s ability to study it at any other college in the country (I would assume an intelligent prospective student would look into something like that when deciding where to go for college). It’s not even an issue.
@Anonymous “Lol, if you’re going to study Architecture then don’t apply to Columbia.” Are you kidding me?!?! If you’re a CC or BC freshman, you *really* know what major you want to take? If you happen to stumble upon an architecture class and love it, why wouldn’t you take advantage of it? Yes, undergraduate architecture != graduate architecture. But the undergraduates are still drawing upon the resources of one of the top architecture programs in the country!
And as for why architecture, urban studies, theater, etc. programs are shared, I think it’s because all of them are inherently interdisciplinary. Why not take advantage of the larger student and campus community? You know, building metaphorical bridges and trying to understand each other?
@Hannah the Barnard website tracks the cross registrations and lists the following statistic on the website:
“In a typical year, there are 7,000 Barnard student course registrations at Columbia, and 6,900 Columbia student course registrations at Barnard.”
http://barnard.edu/admissions/education/academic-resources
that’s approx. a 1:1 ratio average from year to year. (and yes, I trust the integrity of a Barnard-related statistic on the Barnard and would not entertain the idea that it was cheated up, Barnard self-aggrandizing conspiracy theories, etc.)
@Hannah (not sure if this posted somewhere else)
the Barnard website tracks the cross registrations and lists the following statistic on the website:
“In a typical year, there are 7,000 Barnard student course registrations at Columbia, and 6,900 Columbia student course registrations at Barnard.”
http://barnard.edu/admissions/education/academic-resources
that’s approx. a 1:1 ratio average from year to year. (and yes, I trust the integrity of a Barnard-related statistic on the Barnard and would not entertain the idea that it was cheated up, Barnard self-aggrandizing conspiracy theories, etc.)
@careful buddy So you mean that 6,900 students at Barnard go to Columbia. However, 7,000 students in all of Columbia University, all the 4 classes and grad schools and so on take classes at Barnard.
Unless this is clarified I can only say one thing. Equal? I think not.
@Careful, "careful buddy" Firstly, the number of “course registrations” does not equal the number of students.
Secondly, *how* can a Columbia graduate student take courses at undergraduate-only Barnard?
Third, the headcount of undergraduates at Columbia (CC, SEAS, GS) is 8,103. The Barnard headcount is 2,389.
@Anonymous Oh fuck that GS comment about GPAs. You get higher GPAs because you’re older and you take two classes a semester. College students just leaving home, just getting used to the stress of higher education, and without the support of additional years to grow up and get their shit together clearly will have a lower overall GPA. A thirty-five year old brownnoser in the front of the classroom interrupting a lecture every ten minutes to ask a question or commiserate with the professor probably would get a higher grade.
Also: There are Barnard girls living in Columbia dorms…there are Barnard girls heading Columbia organizations. There’s a reason Barnard girls don’t have swipe access to Columbia dorms, and I don’t think that’s going to change soon, considering that Barnard isn’t about to let Columbia into their dorms. I’d also like to point out that at least from my perspective, Columbia students only take classes at Barnard that are not offered at Columbia, like random dance classes, and foreign languages, and the occasional gender class. Barnard girls are present in every department of Columbia–why is that? Barnard girls, why take Econ or Shakespeare at Columbia when your own school can provide those for you? I support an exchange in classes, but perhaps only to make up for what each other school lacks.
@Anonymous By your logic, there would be only a trivial amount of male students in any Barnard course. While the male to female ratios are not usually 50/50, I’m pretty sure this is not the case overall. (For the sake of the OP’s suggestion, please, let no one suggest a sex-related reason why men attend these courses).
I can’t speak for my fellow Barnard students as to why they take Econ or Shakespeare at Columbia. Honestly, I don’t look at what school my classes are held at when I’m choosing courses. I look for the courses that interest me and relate to my major. My major happens to be Ancient History, which means I take most of my courses at Columbia. (Barnard’s history department specializes in more modern history as a whole, from my experience.)
I would support a system where classes such as Econ and certain science classes were restricted by school. The system would have to be carefully built not to prevent students from crossing the street for classes when there are no equal alternatives on their side, however.
@Anonymous Let’s pretend I said *Ancient Studies.
@Anonymous Let’s not make the argument about GS vs the other schools. I don’t agree with his reasoning or your insults, but it is true that you can’t directly compare CC and GS grades.
Also, midterms are a valid excuse for using double-negatives.
@BARNARD Why are you so obsessed with me??
@Curse you downvote! So sorry, I meant to like that. And by like, I mean love.
@Get over it http://youtu.be/H1Yt0xJKDY8
@Anonymous Read this and tell me how this is fair:
When we pick classes we all pray and hope for the starts above to shine down on us and give us good registration times so that we don’t have to hit refresh for 30 minutes straight trying to get into that one good econ class. We know the athletes have the earliest registration times, but they have practice and stuff, so whatever, there’s an argument to be made. But my Barnard friend kindly (and sort of snobbishly) informed me that no, I have it all wrong, athletes aren’t the first to register for classes, but Barnard students are the first to register for Columbia classes. If my Barnard friend was incorrect, please correct me, but if she was not, then well, how is this fair?
Sure, Barnard is a selective college, it is the sister school to Columbia afterall. And everyone knows that all the girls that don’t get into or don’t think they can get into Columbia apply to Barnard. Afterall, it’s basically the same, they get a Columbia degree, get to mingle with the Columbia community, get to have better housing (heard Barnard housing is overall better), get to have first shot at our classes, actually they have it better… Hey wait, now why didn’t I apply to Barnard?
@Have you considered that your friend may be an athlete? I’m sorry but I do not get earlier sign up times than most Columbia students.
@Anonymous I’m pretty sure your Barnard friend was wrong, as I have never heard of this early registration for Barnard students thing. If she’s right, I feel a little jipped that I never knew.
Your stereotype of women who using Barnard as a stepping stool for Columbia is tiring. Do you have proof that a large number of Barnard students use the school in this way?
Also, for why didn’t you apply to Barnard: Perhaps you didn’t want people to insult you personally for the actions of both schools’ faculty.
@CC '13 As far as I understand it, Barnard course registration takes places prior to Columbia course registration, which means that yes, Barnard students are able to register for Columbia classes before Columbia students are. However, to ensure fairness, there are caps on the number of Barnard students permitted to enroll in Columbia courses.
So yeah, it’s unfair, but not. The course registration system clearly has its flaws, but this seems like the easiest solution to the BC/CU registration issue.
@Tsk Tsk You are wrong…
@bc12 nope. you’re wrong. we can apply for BARNARD classes first, but not columbia classes. believe me, i know.
@Anonymous Sure, if your friend was right and what you say about BC students being able to register for classes earlier is true (which it’s not), that does indeed seem unfair.
But it’s kind of a small thing in the grand scheme, right? The sort of thing that could be brought up to student leaders and the administration and for which a compromise could, conceivably, be quite easily achieved.
It hardy seems like the sort of egregious wrong needed to justify your anger that BC is a stepping stone/back door to Columbia resources and the argument that Barnard students are not deserving of their place as part of the University.
@I think Barnard students -when appropriate- should take placement tests to get into Columbia classes. It would show that they are qualified, and would get Columbia students to shut up about how Barnard students don’t deserve to be in their classes.
@Anonymous That’s fair, as long as Columbia students have to take placement tests to get into Barnard classes.
I have to say, though… if a Barnard student would fail a placement test, wouldn’t she do poorly in the class anyway?
@Isn't the whole point that we have one course catalogue?
@Anonymous It’s because this country in in the midst of an important political debate about women. Rush Limbaugh’s comments shouldn’t be taken lightly. It showed that sexism is still very much alive in this country and it’s disgusting. The fact that students in our community wrote such heinous things over the internet after as you said, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES COMING TO SPEAK ON CAMPUS seemed to prove this very point. It might be a political ploy but it is still an honor. It’s sad and unfortunate that the entire Columbia University system is being pulled into a nationwide debate and put into the spotlight – proving that people in our supposedly young and understanding generation still share the sentiments that we have tried so hard to fight against. They may be just silly words on a student run blog, but there is something deeper and hateful behind those words – the idea that women are “sluts” and worthless. I thought we were past that guys. We have to choose our words carefully and reexamine the way we think.
@CC '14 We get it. CC’s relationship with BC is ambiguous. And until somebody gives us a clear distinction between the two institutions, tensions will always exist. Anonymously bitching at each other and/or explaining why a united BC/CC relationship creates rainbows and jellybeans is not going to change any minds.
I don’t see a substantial resolution any time soon. Most of the smack talk was probably carried out by the vocal minority on both sides anyway. After some time, the less vocal, less angry majority will start speaking out and eventually it’ll seem like we’ve reached a resolution. Bwog and Spec are going to pat themselves on the back for catalyzing such a compromise, articles will be written about the lessons of the day, but the next time something like this happens, all hell’s going to break loose all over again. So please Bwog, can you look past your orgasmic page view stats for the past week and just let this die now?
@Caitlin Hamrin BC'12 Now I just want a hug. I would say I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy, but I really don’t want someone to yell, “She doesn’t even go here!” in my face.
@Michael Spitzer-Rubenstein, CC'12 You do go here. Barnard is as much a part of Columbia as CC is.
@Anonymous It’s strange, because I don’t know how many people I have class with share these sentiments I see online. How many of them are okay with Barnard students? How many blame us for what the administration of both schools have decided upon? Common sense seems to tell me that those who think we should GTFO are small, as I’ve never seen someone react that way before in person, before.
Yet, I used to think this debate was only present in online forums. Yesterday, I walked by several groups of students talking about this over the course of the day. It’s strange to know that you belong (as you are not responsible for the administration’s decisions) but to feel like, in some way, you might not.
@Anonymous http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd1qOoT9zUc
@you in this time of great darkness, you sir, have put a smile on my face :)
@CC '12 Is anybody else lol-ing at the fact that NYTimes/Jezabel/godknowswhoelse have nothing better to do than write non-stories about anonymous comments on a university blog?
By all means, let’s deal with our issues, but why is the Times writing an article about anonymous reactions to the president coming to speak on campus instead of writing an article about THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES COMING TO SPEAK ON CAMPUS. Who in the rest of the world (it exists!) gives a fuck about this? Right, no one.
My guess is that the parents of certain columbia/barnard demographics are the only ones still paying for print subscriptions, so it’s like a PTA newsletter for them at this point.
@CC'13 as a columbia woman, i feel like i’ve been told since day one (mostly by columbia gusy) that i’m supposed to feel somehow threatened by barnard. why am i supposed to see barnard women as my “competition” instead of the people i go to school with? (the idea that we’re all competing is totally wack, but that’s for another day). it’s like by virtue of our gender, we’re supposed to be rivals, like there’s some sort of cap on the number of successful women allowed. i call bullshit.
what disturbs me most about this whole debacle is the blatant misogyny coming from men and women. columbia women-you need to take a good hard look at yourself, because you have definitely internalized a bunch of mess that you need to correct. columbia men-i am horrified to share my campus with you. barnard women are sluts and cum dumpsters? and i’m not because i live on the other side of broadway? i refuse to believe that. if you can talk about a bunch of women you don’t know that way, i’m sure you could talk about all women, regardless of where they go to school.
@lawlz http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0hw9iwD2E1qbtciyo1_1280.jpg
@CC Clearly, the bigger issue here lies with the affiliation between Columbia and Barnard itself – the comments that have been made, while occasionally crossing the line, only illustrate the dissatisfaction that has existed amongst the Columbia community for years. The most obvious source of this dissatisfaction is the fact that Barnard has much lower admission standards, but Barnard students are allowed to take the same classes and receive a CU degree at the end of the day, reducing the value of a Columbia education, which is especially frustrating to those who feel they “earned” it. I acknowledge that there is value in allowing students of both institutions to take classes in the other – more education is better, right? But why should Barnard students be granted a Columbia degree or the right to call themselves Columbians? The fact remains that Barnard students DIDN’T go through the same rigorous admission process – I don’t care how smart you are, but if you didn’t go through the process a Columbian did (what is it now? a 7 in 100 chance to get into Columbia, as opposed to 3 in 10 for Barnard?), you can’t blame them for feeling frustrated that you’ve taken the “back door” in. If Barnard insists on maintaining its own independent administration and admissions process anyway, I don’t see why Columbia and Barnard can’t remain officially separate institutions but work out some kind of agreement allowing for a certain number of classes to be taken at the other institution. Columbia administration needs to seriously get on this issue and stop sweeping all of these comments under the rug – they are a symptom of a far larger deep-running discontent at hand.
STUDENT COUNCIL, PREZBO, IF YOU’RE READING THIS, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ALREADY.
God. Back to my fucking midterms.
@Michael Spitzer-Rubenstein, CC'12 This is bullshit. Do you actually think Barnard students are less smart than Columbia College students?
And, if so, are you confident enough that you are smarter than anyone at Barnard to be able to say so publicly, without hiding behind an anonymous name?
@CC Read my comment again: “The fact remains that Barnard students DIDN’T go through the same rigorous admission process – I don’t care how smart you are, but if you didn’t go through the process a Columbian did…you can’t blame them for feeling frustrated that you’ve taken the “back door” in.”
I acknowledge that there are intelligent individuals at Barnard. I’m saying that the issue many Columbians have is due to the technicalities of the admissions process – let’s say two equally smart people apply for two different scholarships, one with a 1% admission rate and the other with a 40% admission rate. Both end up receiving exactly the same reward. Wouldn’t you be likely to conclude that it was much easier for one person, and that the person who went through the more selective process might justifiably feel cheated?
@but How are they reaping “the same exact rewards”? Their experiences will still be quintessentially different (the Core, dorms, resources, Lionshare, limited class registration, blah blah blah) and we will still graduate with different degrees. Unless you’re thinking of one of those imaginary Barnard girls who put “Columbia” on their resumes or whatever.
@Anonymous I just don’t understand how you think admissions rates, a process that took place for all of us about five years ago based on our high school performances, are more important than four years of college coursework and accomplishments. And yes, we HAVE earned the degree by virtue of passing many of the same classes, sharing many of the same professors, and living and working in the same communities.
You might argue that BC classes/core requirements are easier than CC so we are less worthy. But honestly we can all admit that nothing is harder than the SEAS requirements, so do CC students deserve the same degree as SEAS kids? That shit is seriously hard. I’d like to see some of you CC humanities majors try to take on that coursework. You’d have no time to BS on Bwog, that’s for sure.
The only people who make the “worthy” argument based on admissions rates are people who have done NOTHING of worth since they got into Columbia.
We could also turn this into a terrible argument on the effects of affirmative action and athletic recruitment on admissions rates, but we don’t, because admissions isn’t a measure of your worth in college.
@lil let’s get real here. we all know the hardest part about going to a good college is getting in. everyone ranging from average to excellent, once given a place at a college, will manage to graduate with a degree somehow. we manage. the biggest hurdle is getting that acceptance letter.
@Anonymous Lets be very clear here. The distinction between a SEAS degree and a CC degree is much clearer to anyone outside of this little community than a Barnard compared to a CC or SEAS. SEAS get a BS. The outside world actually gets what that is. CC gets a BA. The outside world also knows what that is.
Vasser doesn’t put Yale on their degrees.
They decided to cut the umbilical cord and become their own school.
@Anonymous I really do hear some of your points, but every time someone on here says that Barnard students reduce the value of a Columbia education, all I can think about is straight people saying that gay marriage reduces the value of their marriage. If you really think that a Barnard student in your Chemistry class reduces the value of your education, that’s coming from your own insecurities. I doubt this issue is even on the radar of anyone (including potential employers) outside the Columbia bubble.
@Anonymous not really. marriage is a right which everyone should have. being able to graduate with a degree from a certain institution is a privilege which must be earned.
please people. comparing this rivalry to the gay/straight marriage debate? get your head out of your asses.
@Anonymous I was hardly comparing this situation to the marriage equality debate. My point was just that to me, saying that Barnard students decrease the value of a Columbia degree is just as ridiculous as saying that someone else’s marital status affects the significance of your own marriage. Only you can decide what value to place on your education. No employer is going to look down on a Columbia degree because of Barnard.
@Anonymous Barnard college is an affiliated institution with Columbia university (and has been for a century). Barnard students pay many thousands of dollars in their tuition to use the facilities across the street. This is the simple and obvious answer. Paying for access to the classes and facilities gives Barnard students the right to use them. Fair and square. Barnard students receive a completely different degree than a student at Columbia college. A Columbia college students degree says “Columbia College” while a Barnard degree says “Barnard college of Columbia university.” This is no different than a student graduating from GS who receives a degree that says “School of General Studies at Columbia University.” While I think your outrage is misplaced and that you are misinformed, I wonder why are you not offended by the degree given to GS or SEAS students based on the (somewhat confused) logic of your argument. I am a Barnard student who didn’t apply to Columbia and while I enjoy taking classes there, am very proud of my own school. When people ask me where I go to school, I say Barnard, because that’s the lucky truth. I get that there are some girls who introduce themselves as students at Columbia university and that that bothers some insecure men and women from the college, but the reality is, we receive a Barnard college of Columbia university degree. Nobody is claiming to be a Columbia college student. There is a difference. Sorry to all those bitter people who can’t let go. Focus on your own lives. Stop the hate.
@Anonymous >While I think your outrage is misplaced and that you are misinformed, I wonder why are you not offended by the degree given to GS or SEAS students based on the (somewhat confused) logic of your argument.
Because those two schools are unambiguously CU undergrad colleges, and because they aren’t financed independently, and because they were never independent colleges. SEAS students live with CC students and share virtually all facilities. Does anyone really need to spell out the obvious structural differences?
Oh, and because I’m a misogynist.
@Anonymous The bad blood has not existed “for years.” While, even just a few years ago, the occasional Barnard joke was made it was generally in good spirit. This year is the first that I’ve seen such a rude and unwarranted attack on the Barnard community. It’s also the first I’ve seen so many people complain about how terrible Columbia is or how difficult they find the work.
I’m not sure what has changed, but perhaps you should look at yourselves instead of spewing nonsense on an anonymous comment thread to try and make you feel better.
@CC Just because this is the first time there’s been a public outpouring of negativity doesn’t mean there hasn’t been negativity around for a long time.
@BC 15 “…but Barnard students are allowed to take the same classes and receive a CU degree at the end of the day, reducing the value of a Columbia education, which is especially frustrating to those who feel they “earned” it.”
I’m confused – you acknowledge that we took the same classes as you, were graded on the same curve, etc. – but we didn’t “earn” the same degree that you receive?
Does the degree reflect admission or education? I always thought it was the latter. My future CU degree will reflect my CU education. I love that I go to Barnard, but I absolutely deserve a Columbia University degree after spending four years taking a variety of Columbia University classes, whatever the campus there are held at is.
@Anonymous break out of the morningside bubble: KONY 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc
@CC'13 sweet, now i just wish that the white people who did Invisible children and the Kony Campaign would use their white privilege and white messiah complex to hold the West’s/Global North War Criminals responsible. They should be telling people to reblog posters of the all the heads of G8 and NATO. it’s so funny white people will run all over Africa after a African War Criminal, but they don’t have the vigilance in going after Dynocorp CEO Van Honeycutt, Lockhead Martin CEO Robert J. Stevens , and all the other USA Military Contractor CEO’s in their backyard. shit if you really want to stop the killing in Africa, start a campaign for the USA, UK, France, Russia, China and the rest of the Global North to destroy and cut their military departments.
and to the folks of color who are sharing this Kony BS, locking up African War Criminals will not stop the slaughter of African people if you don’t hold The West’s/Global North War Criminals accountable.
@Anonymous At least they’re doing something, instead of sitting at home and doing nothing.
@frustrated yes…seriously this is distracting me from studying and making me insecure about my tiny brain
at least my mom got out of prison today, though. I’m so proud of her!
@Anonymous *claps*
@RH As a Barnard student who is majoring in Film Studies (with a minor in critical genderqueer theoretical studies) and who has listed Columbia University under my networks on Facebook I can assure you that all this hubub is over nothing! Nothing I tell you!
@Anonymous Yeah! Occupy 116th Street! Hunger Strike!
@I hate everyone at this school I typically don’t comment here, but remember when a girl killed herself last semester and everyone came here with their bullshit WE MUST CARE FOR ONE ANOTHER, WE ARE A COMMUNITY!!! comments? I’m guessing that’s just because everyone loves with fellow students commit suicide because of the exciting drama it creates in their lives, because after a week everyone went right back to being cunts. Whether it’s on campus, in hallways, or in the classroom, I’ve met maybe one or two genuine people. The rest of you are so concerned with being entitled douchebags to everyone else, I’m surprised you can take your heads out of your asses long enough to post hateful Bwog comments. You trash each other 24/7 with utterly disgusting remarks and horrifying behavior in person and online and then are all pretend sad and caring when someone kills herself. As if your asshole attitudes help the situation at all.I thought coming to Columbia after a shitty high school experience, I’d finally be among people who were legitimately awesome and who maybe were also the oddball nerds among assholes and we’d all now find a nice cozy home at Columbia and life would be rainbows and smiles, but instead it’s like being surrounded by petty adult babies who feel so insecure about their own tiny dicks, they get off on hating and shaming people they consider to be less than? Fuck you all. I’d 100% rather be dead than ever have to see one of your faces again.
@seas '12 i have begun an auto-thumbs down system to free up my time
if one’s comment:
– breaks godwin’s law (i include the usage of “feminazis”)
– uses a sexist/racial/ableist/etc. slur
i don’t care what the rest of your comment is arguing because you clearly can’t debate without being a demeaning asshat.
because, really, the fact that there are comments on the previous post that use vitriol like “cum dumpster” and -aren’t- blurred into oblivion? is embarrassing and disgusting and shows just how much you think misogyny is a-okay when you feel slighted. it doesn’t matter that those particular comments probably came from a handful of people. we haven’t shown our disapproval anywhere near as strongly as we should have, and it reflects poorly on the community as a whole. also, you know, makes a lot of people feel like shit for no good fucking reason.
@Anonymous Cruel, idiotic Columbia commenters–do you feel a LITTLE awkward about the fact that the backlash in the press in reaction to your poor, incredibly reprehensible behavior has no doubt reached the President…really making him change his mind about the school he chose to speak to, I’m sure, and bringing back tons of fun college memories.
I mean, I would feel a little awkward. Or shamed. Shame should certainly be thrown out there.
@seas '12 my favorite bit is seeing which comments are being downvoted and which aren’t. such as this one.
@Just a heads up. “Why is Barnard part of the Columbia network?
To date, Facebook has been unwilling to allow Barnard to have its own network independent of Columbia University. There are both benefits (such as being able to connect with friends and professors from Columbia) and disadvantages (no independent Barnard network) to our current situation, and we are cautiously evaluating these variables as we consider our next steps in the matter.”
http://alum.barnard.edu/s/1133/index.aspx?sid=1133&gid=1&pgid=335
@I hate everyone at this school I typically don’t comment here, but remember when a girl killed herself last semester and everyone came here with their bullshit WE MUST CARE FOR ONE ANOTHER, WE ARE A COMMUNITY!!! bullshit comments? I’m guessing that’s just because everyone loves with fellow students commit suicide because of the exciting drama it creates in their lives, because after a week everyone went right back to being cunts. Whether it’s on campus, in hallways, or in the classroom, I’ve met maybe one or two genuine people. The rest of you are so concerned with being entitled douchebags to everyone else, I’m surprised you can take your heads out of your asses long enough to post hateful Bwog comments. You trash each other 24/7 with utterly disgusting remarks and horrifying behavior in person and online and then are all pretend sad and caring when someone kills herself. As if your piece of shit attitudes help the situation at all.I thought coming to Columbia after a shitty high school experience, I’d finally be among people who were legitimately awesome and who maybe were also the oddball nerds among assholes and we’d all now find a nice cozy home at Columbia and life would be rainbows and smiles, but instead it’s like being surrounded by petty adult babies who feel so insecure about their own tiny dicks, they get off on hating and shaming people they consider to be less than? Fuck you all. I’d 100% rather be dead than ever have to see one of your faces again.
@Correlation I think that this whole Obama controversy happening directly before and during midterms has greatly increased how pissed off and stress out people are this time of year. We are therefore seeing especially vitrolic and hateful commentary possibly as a way of venting midterm frustrations.
Why aren’t I studying….
@Anonymous Who needs orgo night when all you have to do is get obama to speak at graduation to lower the curve?
@SEAS 13 They aren’t keeping me from getting into any of my classes… there are more good looking intelligent girls around campus… whats not to like?
@CC07 1) As an alum who loved their time at Columbia and to this day donates time(interviewing prospective students) and money to the college, this is fucking embarrassing. Everyone who graduates with a degree from Columbia College has an investment in the schools name and reputation so stop fucking it up for yourselves and the rest of us by acting like petty pathetic children.
2) The Columbia/Barnard argument is stupid. If you really really believe that Barnard students are academically inferior to you because they go to Barnard not CC what does it fucking matter? Guess what, just the name on your diploma does not get you a job. It can get you in the door but you need more than just the diploma, especially in the current economy, to get a job. You will be judged on your merits and hey if a Barnard student is more qualified that is what matters, not which school they went to. If people lie and say they went to Columbia when they went to Barnard thats their own risk(not going to go over well if the person interviewing them figures it out) and also sadness, because Barnard is a great school that anyone should be proud to go to. This sort of shit does not matter in the real world and crying BUT SHE WENT TO BARNARD AND I WAS IN THE COLLEGE when you don’t get a job is not going to get you a job, or a date if a guy thinks you’re an asshole or respect from a random person if you act like a petty moron. Being smart and acting like a respectful human being is what matters once you leave Morningside, not which side of the street you lived on. If you people REALLY REALLY believe the nonsense you’re spouting about Barnard girls then this will be reflected in your respective successes in the real world. Good luck with that.
@VICEROY Well since Barnard kids will do much worse in life than Columbia kids because they’re less intelligent, then Columbia kids will do much worse than Harvard and Yale kids because they’re less intelligent. (Insert U.S. News statistics) Harvard and Yale: Congratulations. You beat us. We will now fix you a sandwich and please dump your cum in me <3
Columbia. You are killing yourself. Congratufuckinglations.
@Anonymous I think the use of terms like “cum bucket” and “jizz hole” have something to do with it.
@BC '12 Hey, Columbia, do you guys remember this post: http://bwog.com/2011/02/27/something-we-dont-usually-do/ ?
Apparently the title of it was far more accurate than I had ever thought..being compassionate and empathetic is clearly something that you “don’t usually do”. Columbia students, you can take your 30 point margin on me on the SATS, you can take back your Facebook network, you can take your mediocre salad bar, your nonsensically laid out Lerner, your beautiful tin roofs (I will miss those) and, hell, even your men. Fuck it, take your sperate degree. I would gladly forsake all of those “benefits” to distance Barnard from all this ugliness. Fuck your steps and stacks–I get emails from Well Women that contain Youtube videos of kittens; I get professors who invite me over for dinner and drinks; I get 70 year old alums who still brag about how they won discus in the Greek Games; I get the President of the College knowing my name, serving me pancakes, and making small talk with me in an elevator bank; I get sincerity and smarts; I get to attend an institution that teaches me how to be both a good student as well as a good person and a fucking force of a woman. I get to go to school with people who care–care not about protecting their elitism but about creating an environment that is emotionally fulfilling as well as intellectually stimulating. You want to protect the “integrity of your degree” from ME? I want to protect the beauty of my community from YOU.
And Bwog, don’t you dare act like you’re not complicit in this. This forum has paraded out some of the most spiteful, snarky, and mean-hearted pieces of writing that I have ever seen (and I read Gawker, ladies and gentlemen) and has had the audacity of calling it “journalism”. I understand that we are all in our twenties and are ~*~2 kewl 4 skewl~*~ but time and time again, this website has perpetuated some dark stereotypes and has actively worked to break down any feeble attempts of community building that actually managed to survive the first level of apathy hell that is the Columbia populace. The fact that you allow anonymous commenting and that you haven’t shut down the comments system at any point of this leads me to believe that you are gaining some sick pleasure out of the mudslinging. (OR the constant hyperlinking back to you.)
to end: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RIM2MAMg-DQ/TQ3fHuljk0I/AAAAAAAABBg/btTwYjve4CA/s1600/8vydtc.gif
@Anonymous First:
>being compassionate and empathetic is clearly something that you “don’t usually do”.
>Fuck your steps and stacks–I get emails from Well Women that contain Youtube videos of kittens;
> You want to protect the “integrity of your degree” from ME? I want to protect the beauty of my community from YOU.
Then:
>This forum has paraded out some of the most spiteful, snarky, and mean-hearted pieces of writing that I have ever seen
And hypocritical? And immature? No kidding.
@CC I don’t approve of hating barnard, and I have made great friends who go there. But can we at least acknowledge the reason some columbia students are upset by the weird barnard/columbia relationship? barnard students take valuable spaces in small columbia classes, they hold leadership positions in student organizations, they use columbia resources and study space, all while not technically attending this school. so when columbia tells you how many people go here, they’re not exactly telling the truth. maybe admissions policies are stupid and arbitrary but they exist so why not go by them when it comes to the most practical stuff? whatever, people will probably still hate me for this, but we’re not all misogynist assholes ok. this is really not a feminist thing. We’re not elitists choosing who to interact with based on the admissions rate of their school. It just feels kinda unfair sometimes based on those practical concerns and can be frustrating in a way that sucks given barnard students are our friends and peers. just give us that.
@Anonymous Of course you have a point. But could you also take a moment and understand how the entire debacle has been an ABSOLUTE shit show because of the way these opinions have been expressed; they are personal attacks of Barnard students (who have earned their right to go to BC, just like you have to CC), and not critiques of the system? IS IT THE BARNARD STUDENT’S FAULT THAT RESOURCES ARE GIVEN TO THEM? WHERE IS YOUR LOGIC?
@BC'12 Not all of the resources that Columbia University provides us are intangible. For the ones that aren’t, Barnard students pay a pretty penny every semester for resources. Its the “comprehensive fee” on our bills.
@Ummm So you don’t want people who go to school across the street from you to ever step foot on your campus? That’s ridiculous. I can slightly understand your issue concerning our degrees but no social interactions at all seems a bit weird. We are directly across the street. Should we just pretend neither of the schools exists?
@BC '14 This comment suggests that Columbia students never take advantage of Barnard’s resources-classes, academic and living spaces, or dining halls. I think it’s pretty clear that is not the case.
@BC '13 Seriously, there are Columbia kids in my Barnard classes constantly and I don’t whine about it.
Is there an actual difference in grade distribution between Barnard and Columbia students? Because if we’re getting the same grades in the same classes, which based on my personal experiences I’d say we likely are, let’s cool it with the “you have no right to be here” crap.
@Anonymous …columbia kids are in your barnard classes to boost their gpa. Barnard classes are–on the whole–significantly easier than columbia classes
@Anonymous [citation needed]
@CC I certainly don’t approve or agree with hating barnard. Some of my best friends go to Barnard. However, in my opinion, Columbia Students (I mean non-barnard here) have a reason to be upset by the weird Barnard/Columbia connection. Reason #1: Some (not saying all) clearly take advantage of the Barnard/Columbia relationship. One of my great friends from Barnard applied to Barnard, Princeton, Yale, Columbia, Harvard, etc. She only got into Barnard and she went there. She then applied to transfer to Columbia after her freshman year. She got rejected again. When trying to apply for internships for the summer after her sophomore year, I clearly saw her write an email to a potential employer saying “I go to Columbia”. My roommate also encountered the same thing when she went on a group interview. One of the students in the group was a Barnard student who told the employer she was Columbia. This is where I think Columbia Students get upset. Fact: It is easier to get into Barnard. Fact: Employers really respond to the name Columbia. Fact: When you say, “I go to Columbia”, non-CU community people think you mean Columbia College or SEAS (and I imagine Barnard students know this). So I think it can be frustrating to CC and SEAS students when they worked so incredibly hard to have the opportunity to come to Columbia and other students who go to Barnard try to say that they were admitted by the Columbia admissions committee, which they weren’t. Note: I’m not saying this is all Barnard students and I’m not saying Barnard women aren’t smart. I would like to hear a Barnard students perspective on this.
Also, as a CC woman, I would like to say that this has nothing to do with the fact that Barnard students are women. Yes, some the comments about intelligence are very rude and completely unnecessary. But I feel this stems more from the fact that Columbia is an ivy-league institution and Barnard is not.
@Anonymous “Fact: It is easier to get into Barnard. Fact: Employers really respond to the name Columbia. Fact: When you say, “I go to Columbia”, non-CU community people think you mean Columbia College or SEAS (and I imagine Barnard students know this). So I think it can be frustrating to CC and SEAS students when they worked so incredibly hard to have the opportunity to come to Columbia and other students who go to Barnard try to say that they were admitted by the Columbia admissions committee, which they weren’t.”
1. Stop using the Columbia acceptance rate as a rigidly defined standard of quality. No institution’s acceptance rate functions as such. Please acknowledge the fact that acceptance to a school is based upon a variety of factors, some of which are extremely arbitrary. Columbia’s lower acceptance rate does not stand as logical proof of its superiority over Barnard, or any other institution. Just as you probably like to think that Harvard’s lower acceptance rate does not make it an unequivocally superior institution to Columbia, and so on and so forth. So no, I do not think it is a “fact” that it is “easier” to get into Barnard than Columbia. This is your opinion. I’m not saying that many people do not share it, but acceptance rate does not equal ease of acceptance. Ease is relative. Come graduation, look at the persons surrounding you…no two people in your graduating class had the same level of “ease” in gaining their acceptance to Columbia. We all come from vastly different high schools, different backgrounds…life does not have the same “ease” for anyone. This is a fact.
Barnard and CC, GS, SEAS, TC, etc etc. are separate institutions. I doubt anyone seriously denies this fact. But Barnard is a part of Columbia University. True, the relationship between Barnard and the University is not the same as the relationship between CC and the University…but the relationships between GS, SEAS, et. al. are not identical either.
Do I believe it is dishonest for a Barnard woman to omit Barnard from her resume, job applications, interviews, etc.? Yes. In the same way that I would view it as dishonest if a CC student implied they went to SEAS, or SEAS implied CC, or GS omitted GS, etc. Do people do this? I’m not sure. But it doesn’t matter. I do not think it is fair to judge the University policy re: the BC:CU relationship based upon a few (often mythical, or “straw man” seeming) exceptions. People are dishonest. Anywhere. Everywhere. About anything. Especially in the job market. The most you can do is hold yourself to your own standards of honesty and integrity and trust that you will be rewarded for it. Let those who are dishonest reap whatever consequences will inevitably come.
The main issue I take with this argument is the assumption that a Barnard student who “poses” as a Columbia student somehow devalues your Columbia degree. Again, this “bad seed”, “ungrateful”, “ashamed of Barnard” woman is, I argue, mostly a straw (wo)man argument. Only a very FEW (and I’m only taking CC students’ word for it–I’ve never personally encountered this) misrepresent their time at Barnard in the way you describe. If these few exist, ignore it. Trust me, it will ultimately mean NOTHING for you personally. It will not devalue “your” degree…certainly no more than a trust fund legacy baby admitted to “your” university based more upon status than merit.
It is not dishonest for a Barnard woman to state that she was a part of Columbia University. That she attended classes there (if she was a math or CS or Stats major she probably took MOST of her classes there). Barnard students have rightfully earned their place in Columbia classes through their acceptance to Barnard college which has a mutually agreed upon, mutually beneficial relationship with Columbia University and its subsequent colleges. They pay for these resources. As do you. Barnard students do not get anything from this relationship that they have not “earned.” They have just as much right to be in CC, BC, and graduate classes as you do. The difference in acceptance rates does not make Barnard inferior or unequal to the rest of the University…certainly no more than a difference in acceptance rates between CC, SEAS, and GS, or any of the graduate schools makes any one institution inferior to the other.
Unlike many here, I do not think that the problem stems from the “ambiguously defined” BC:CU relationship. I don’t think that it is possible (nor to our benefit as a community) for the relationship to be rigidly defined by x, x, or x. I do take issue with certain specific policies (ie: it’s silly that BC and CC/SEAS students living on campus must be signed into and out of our respective dorms the same way a non-CU community member would), but this is a fairly minute point.
So please, elaborate…how is the Barnard:CU relationship unfair? In what ways are you being “wronged”?
What else, specifically, do you think there is reasonable justification to change about the relationship? Have you taken these issues up with student leaders and/or the administration? Can you draft a logical and coherent proposal for changes to the relationship? If so, I would love to see it and take it into consideration.
@Anonymous FACT: I don’t go to columbia or barnard and have no idea wtf seas is. Get off your high horse.
@Anonymous I wanted to further add–
Barnard students work extremely hard to get into Barnard. It is the most selective women’s college in the country. You simply cannot say that Columbia students worked more or less hard to get into Columbia than Barnard students worked to get into Barnard. The acceptance rate DOES NOT PROVE THIS. Subjective concepts cannot be equated with facts.
I agree that labeling commenters as sexist or misogynists is inaccurate and unhelpful. But I will argue that much of these comments ARE elitist, whether that is the intention or not. I don’t doubt that the vast majority of people commenting here, even those who have posted crude and hurtful comments, are good and intelligent people underneath the internet’s cloak of anonymity. I can also see how the atmosphere at Columbia, at universities throughout this country and others (particularly top tier or “elite” schools) breeds these attitudes. We all worked our asses off to get here. Our schools are very selective, often based upon very arbitrary “standards.” Bottom line: You are lucky to be here and privileged to take advantage of this education. You can use it to help yourself and others. Your “status” does not matter one cent as much as what you DO with it.
We should all stop chasing the misguided ideal of being the “best” or “smartest” or most “determined” or “successful” or whatever golden “IT” you think you want, can, or should be. There’s always going to be someone who is “more,” who has more “IT” than you. Hold yourself to a personal standard, stop comparing yourself to others. I think you’ll be happier and ultimately contribute more to this world.
@CC '14 “Barnard students work extremely hard to get into Barnard. It is the most selective women’s college in the country. You simply cannot say that Columbia students worked more or less hard to get into Columbia than Barnard students worked to get into Barnard. The acceptance rate DOES NOT PROVE THIS.”
If acceptance rate has no bearing on anything (as many of you BC girls allege), then why mention that Barnard is the most selective women’s college? Or does it only count where it helps you?
I’m not saying that you didn’t work hard to get into Barnard – it’s obviously a fantastic school – but you can’t pick and choose where to assign importance to certain stats.
@BC 15 Do you really think you would have the same variety of small classes, clubs, or resources if they were only being provided to the smaller pool of non-Barnard students?
For instance: language classes (my experience is with Spanish) are small and generally tricky to get into a good section of. Yes, Barnard students probably make up about a third of those classes (in my experience) – but the number of sections offered reflects this. You, and we, get more section choices as a benefit of our increased numbers. The same is true of clubs, etc.
@Anonymous We all know that the issue is Barnard’s unequal relationship to Columbia.
Playing the sexism card is red herring bullshit, and I think that the original source material – the hundreds of comments ignored by the Times, Jezebel and the studiously timid Spectator – speaks for itself. It’s obscene that some Barnard women and that Gawker spin-off Jezebel are trying to spin the community’s legitimate concerns by exaggerating a few (but college standard) sophmoric comments.
@#Fail Because calling someone a cum dumpster and an easy lay isn’t sexist? Please get your facts straight.
@Cristina A. In the world I live in, calling an entire group of women merely vassals to be filled with men’s semen is not appropriate “standard” college jokes. And if that is standard for a college’s jokes? I don’t think I want to go there.
The issue at hand is really important. How about we create a separate forum to talk about it without the insults, addressing the true people at fault (the faculty), so people can take it seriously?
@Anonymous Thank you! This isn’t about sexism. This problem is coming from the undefined Columbia-Barnard relationship. Administration doesn’t clearly draw the line. ex: Admission to CC and SEAS is a different application than Barnard yet Barnard can take Columbia classes. Barnard must get swiped into Columbia dorms while CC and SEAS don’t but CC and SEAS can eat at Hewitt and Barnard can eat in John Jay/Ferris. Columbia and Barnard at to a degree different entities and to a degree the same. The line is not drawn clearly so students are feeling cheated and therefore get pissed off. Administration can easily solve this by clearly and truthfully defining the Columbia-Barnard relationship and not giving politically correct scripted answers.
@WERD .
@Look I think CC students have the right to be angry, you have the right to be pissed, for reasons that are definitely legitimate.
But the question is this: why are you targeting BARNARD STUDENTS, crippling and bringing down the entire atmosphere of the COLUMBIA COMMUNITY with you in the meantime? Should we maybe be a little productive and channel our frustration towards the ambiguous relationship that THE ADMINISTRATION has carved out for us?
Initially there’s a good point, and you just gotta bring everyone down with you in the process. Stupid move, people.
@reply to Look Should we maybe be a little productive and channel our frustration towards the ambiguous relationship that THE ADMINISTRATION has carved out for us? <<<<<<<you hit the nail on the head my friend.
@Anonymous I don’t know why that was posted as a reply
@Another CC Senior Perfect comment. I agree wholeheartedly. Why would anyone, let alone President Obama (whose memories of this place are probably none too fond to begin with, given the attitude of students here) want to come speak at a school whose students show themselves to be so cruel and petty? Above all else, I’m floored at how stupid this whole scene is. Yes, I’m jealous that Obama chose to speak at Barnard, but them’s the breaks. There are far more important things in life – why can’t we just be supportive of each other?
With recent events being how they are, I can’t help but think back to the post about Tina Bu’s passing just a few short months ago. Remember the outpouring of community spirit? I really hope that wasn’t just a thin veneer barely covering all this vitriol, only to be stripped away by something as silly as a commencement speaker. Was that the case? Or is it just that only those that we deem “worthy” are deserving of fellow-feeling?
@Another CC Senior Meant to be in reply to “Ashamed Columbia College Senior” above.
@Anonymous I agree. I have never felt the Columbia-Barnard tension until now and cannot help but take it seriously. Yes, Barnard is administratively and financially independent from Columbia University – so it can pride itself on being a women’s organization that prides itself in furthering women. However, no one can deny that Barnard is socially and academically intertwined with the whole of Columbia. Barnard students aren’t just “those girls across the street”, we are your classmates, leaders in the community, and most important of all we are your friends. There may be resentment that we “take up space” but we pay for those rights – just like you do, and the University takes us into account when planning everything as well. If you are desperate for resources, why not let go of your ego and use our resources as well? The Diana has great food and great places to work and there is always room somewhere on campus. If you are always complaining that Barnard classes are “easier” why not come and see? Stop complaining about things that you know nothing about. Yes the classes will be slightly different – like any lecture will be when taught by different professors – however, you might be pleasantly surprised. I understand that with any institution there will be some friendly tension between unique groups, but to read such harsh words online is heartbreaking. Cyber bullying is an unfortunate byproduct of our generation, words really do hurt. Please stop it, go exert your pent up energy on something else. I understand everyone is tense right now but we’re almost done with midterms.
@conservative, male alum The funniest thing about this whole debate is that no one on the CC side of this debate seems to understand why Obama canNOT and will NOT speak at Columbia College’s Commencement (at least not during his first term), but he CAN speak at Barnard’s (hint: he couldn’t speak at Smith either).
You all seem to think that Obama can’t come to Columbia College because it is associated with Wall Street or because it is an “elite” institution (please, quit flattering yourselves). Obama can’t come to CC’s commencement because he is running for re-election and most American voters associate Columbia with:
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_protests_of_1968
-Ahmedinejad’s speech
-The 2007 Hunger Strike: http://cu-strike.blogspot.com/2007/11/demands-manhattanville-expansion.html
-the storming of the stage when the Minutemen guy came to speak which was covered on national cable networks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuNXmy0e5fc
-Eric Foner who wrote that is so many words that Socialism’s failure in the U.S. was a tragedy
-and, finally, Rashid Khalidi, with whom Obama has already been crticized for having a relationship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Khalidi
If Obama spoke at CC it would be way more political trouble than it’s worth, he would be slandered as a left-wing radical, an anti-Israel/pro-Iran President, who endorses socialism and hunger strikes. It reminds people that he was a community organizer who tried coke. Regardless of how you feel about these issues (my own opinions are somewhat nuanced), it is definitely bad politics as a sitting President up for re-election to expose yourself to being painted with that type of political broad brush. Rush Limbaugh and Fox News would get to harp on Obama’s decision to speak at CC for weeks.
As to why Obama CAN speak at Barnard, it’s simple:
-nationally, Barnard’s reputation is positive, it’s a woman’s college without too much name recognition and few controversies
-speaking at Barnard, a woman’s college, keeps women’s issues in the news for a few extra weeks, which is good for the President given the idiotic attitude of the Republicans on these issues
-Finally, and perhaps most importantly, Barnard is the LEAST lesbian of the 7 Sister schools (narrowly edging out Wellesley). I just checked and Obama hasn’t done an interview with Rachel Maddow since being elected and he will likewise not be seen standing in front of 1000 lesbians because it would make too many Americans, including many among his own his base squirm uncomfortably (religious African Americans to name 1 constituency). It would just look bad from an optics point of view and he would be exposed to another set of attacks from the right.
So, there you have it. I look forward to seeing how you all rip this to shreds/attempt to rip this to shreds.
@Anonymous if someone didn’t use the word vitriol
@Ashamed Columbia College Senior Lets cut the posturing. It is.
@It just seems to me that there needs to be some effort made to keep the debates that this has brought up separate.
The two debates I see are the “Feminist” debate and the “Columbia-Barnard” debate. I just think it’s important to keep them separate. If they’re not, it can make someone who admits that women are not inferior to men seem to endorse the conflation of Columbia and Barnard while making it too easy to accuse someone who believes the two should be distinguished more clearly or fully divided or whatever of being a sexist.
Also, I do think that though people might need to have a more of a sense of humor about certain things, that does not imply that all Barnard/sexist jokes are okay. Jokes are supposed to be funny. Funny people can say funny things about horrible subjects so if someone calls you out for saying something fucked up you can’t defend it by saying it was a joke if you’re not funny.
Well, that was fun.
@bbbbbb Calling someone a cum dumpster, a femenazi, and an easy lay is sexist. Why is that so hard to understand?
@Anonymous I agree with need for the feminist/Barnard vs. Columbia distinction. I, for example, think men and women deserve equal rights under the law, and that what Rush said is terrible and unacceptable.
But on the other issue, I just don’t see on a fundamental level how one can make an argument that it’s fair that the students from another school that is easier to get into (it just happens to be an all-girls school) get to enjoy many of the resources from a school that they did not get accepted to. I know this opinion will probably get a lot of down votes, but can those who reply to my comment please address this issue rather than the misogynistic comments issue?
I’m not an english major so please don’t tear apart my comment due to grammar mistakes. I just want to put out there that the distaste that many Columbia College students feel towards the Barnard situation is not necessarily rooted in misogynistic ideas. I am truly sorry that people said such terrible things in the other posts.
@Anonymous Are we still in high school? Why is everyone still so preoccupied with admission rates? Barnard is a smaller, lesser-known school. Less people apply. There’s plenty of arguably invalid reasons people get accepted to Columbia (cough, cough, athletics). At the end of the day, we’re taking the same classes. I’ve had to take courses at Columbia for my major, and Columbia students have had to take courses at Barnard for their majors. We don’t take the core. Big whoop. The institutions are integrated.
I applied to Barnard because I wanted to go to Barnard, not Columbia. I refer to myself as a Barnard student, and proudly. Referring to Barnard as “part of Columbia” when asked what it is isn’t inaccurate.
@anon If you’re not preoccupied with name, then why didn’t you go to a state school or community college? wtf. obviously you believed going to barnard will help you out in the future.
@BC 12 First of all, I agree with the above statement that we need to stop treating admissions statistics as some sort of universal law that says X school is “better” or “more academically rigorous” or has “higher standards” than another. These are all highly subjective concepts and acceptance rates stand as they do for a myriad of arbitrary reasons far beyond the so called rigor of academic standards.
Few people who consider themselves rational individuals would go so far as to make the blanket statement that acceptance into an ivy league university makes one individual unequivocally “smarter” than another. We all know the politics surrounding college admissions. We all know that chance and luck play a role. Your Columbia acceptance letter is not a certificate of proof that you are more intelligent than x% of the population.
It does not matter that Barnard students were not ‘accepted’ at Columbia — many did not even apply. It is a moot point. Columbia and Barnard students applied to their respective schools with information regarding the relationship between the schools readily available to them.I personally believe the Barnard website has done an excellent job defining the Columbia-Barnard relationship. Barnard pays a fee to Columbia in order to make use of the University’s resources, in addition to making its resources available to the rest of the University. It is a mutually beneficial relationship. You cannot fault Barnard students for taking advantage of the resources which they have earned and paid for–again, information regarding the CU-BC relationship, sharing of resources and mutual benefits, is made available to all of us before and after we apply. BC students participate and excel in Columbia courses. In the individual courses we take, we are all held to the same standards.
Yes there are academic policies that differ between the institutions (may I point out that CC students are allowed to uncover P/F grades while BC students are not?). But on the whole I do not believe it matters in any significant way. We are not awarded exactly the same degree, but all of our degrees are recognized by our parent institution, Columbia University. It is fair because this is the relationship the institutions have agreed upon and information about the relationship is accessible and transparent, to students as well as employers and any individuals outside of our community. A Barnard student who explains that her degree is conferred by the greater University, who states that she attended an undergraduate college under the Columbia umbrella, is in no way misrepresenting her situation.
Acceptance into a college does not guarantee you a degree. It is the work you put forth during your years there. You cannot say that it is “unfair” for BC students to obtain the degrees that they rightfully earn. Debating arbitrary acceptance rates is quite pointless.
@Anonymous Thank you for this accurate, well-reasoned comment. The problem with Columbia students complaining about Barnard’s access to the resources of the University is — well, actually, it’s several problems:
(1) Barnard students, and Barnard as an institution, pay for access to these resources (libraries, gym, etc.). So actually, yes, they have “earned” their access and deserve to receive what they have paid for.
(2) The “access to resources” issue cuts both ways. Because of Barnard, Columbia undergraduates are able to major in Architecture, Education, Urban Studies, Theater, and Dance — all programs that are housed at, paid for, and administered by Barnard.
(3) Barnard does indeed have a separate admissions process, different admissions requirements, and a different degree curriculum from Columbia College. So do GS and SEAS. Yet mysteriously, CC students do not seem to complain nearly as much about having to share “their” resources with students of those schools. This suggests that their is indeed an element of gender bias in the knee-jerk animus toward Barnard expressed by some CC students — even if those CC students are women. (We all are susceptible to internalizing these attitudes, regardless of gender.)
(4) Another basis of the complaints, one that’s been less examined than the “sexism” charge, seems to be socioeconomic class: Barnard students don’t “deserve” to access Columbia’s rich resources, because their school is small and poor whereas Columbia is large and rich. If only we could keep that riff-raff out of our exclusive club! How dare they expect access to a world-class library and reasonably modern fitness center when their endowment is under $200 million? They should know their place!
Well, aside from the fact that this is the agreement that Columbia and Barnard have negotiated, that the information about it is available to all before they apply, and that Barnard’s access to Columbia’s facilities is duly paid for, I hope we can all agree on the further point that this kind of attitude has no place at an institution of higher education which prides itself on its need-blind admissions policies and espouses a philosophy of intellectual enrichment for all who seek it.
We might also ask ourselves WHY Barnard’s endowment is so small. Oh yeah, that’s right — it’s because Columbia College for the first 229 years of its existence refused to educate women AT ALL. So while American women were fighting for the right to receive a college education and pooling whatever meager resources they could scrape together to create a college experience comparable to that enjoyed by Ivy League men, Columbia was matter-of-factly raking in the bucks from wealthy alumni and lavishing ALL of those resources on men and men alone. Yes, CC admits women nowadays. But the legacy of that historical sexism lives on in the vast disparity between the capital assets of the two schools. That is why Columbia GLADLY enters into an arrangement with Barnard whereby the University’s resources are shared.
This is the right thing to do, and it further benefits Columbia by allowing two (or rather three — I regret I don’t know more about the inner workings of GS) very different, but complementary, visions of the liberal arts education to co-exist on the Columbia campus. The students attracted to each of these three institutions are from three different groups, with little overlap. The presence of students from all three divisions in most humanities and social science classes ensures that the classroom community is informed by voices from different intellectual backgrounds and offers all students a richer and more intellectually diverse experience than they would have if the three schools were kept strictly isolated. This arrangement makes things better for everyone, and the only people spoiling it (for themselves as much as anyone) are the few whiny entitled narcissists who persist in believing that the value of an experience is defined by its exclusivity, and that their very diplomas will be devalued if anyone ever finds out that Barnard students can swipe into Butler.
@Anonymous GREATEST COMMENT EVER. Oh, thank you good person for posting this!
@Anon You’re not a mirror; you’re hosting an anonymous forum where people can let loose with the worst kind of behavior that has a real impact on the broader community–most of which they would never ever ever say in person. That’s a highly distorted mirror at best. This isn’t a freedom on speech issue as so many like to categorize it. This is about being accountable for your words. Bwog, don’t think for a hot minute that what happens in these anonymous comments engenders anything positive for the CU community.
Grow a backbone and make people accountable for their comments.
@Danielle says Anon
@Anon again Of course I’m posting anonymously. Do you think I want anything I post on Bwog to come up on a Google search for my name? The comments section is a festering shit hole.
Again Bwog, think about what you want to accomplish with the comments forum–perhaps we should aim as high as engendering intelligent discourse? *gasp*
@Anonymous Leafleting and wall scribbles never hurt anyone over the course of human history. Internet comments sure won’t. Grow a backbone and start living in a world of anonymous speech.
@costanza.jpeg >2012
>not spending so much time posting on and reading 4chan that all your posts automatically turn into troll posts
ISHYGDDT
@Anonymous Most of the comments published on Bwog have most likely been spoken aloud at various points in times.
@BC 13 Barnard is not Columbia College, but we’re part of the Columbia University community. I don’t understand why that’s so difficult for some people to understand.
@Ugh People aren’t being amusing enough. i might have to go do work…
also, my recaptcha sounds like an ad for an ancient Gaelic weight loss product or something:
“use ffenan”
@Anonymous Part of the community, but not part of the university itself – a trivial distinction for some, but a major caveat for others.
@Anonymous stop feeding the trolls you maniacs they’ll kill us all
@in anticipation of the inevitable trollin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRzMtlZjXpU&ob=av2e
@Ashamed Columbia College Senior I can only express vitriol and disgust at you individuals who wouldn’t dare utter a word in public, but have the balls to blab about your bigotry towards an accomplished and prestigious institution. This is a shot out to you as well COLUMBIA WOMEN FOR ACCURATE DEGREE LABELS. If there were ever a reason why Obama class of 83′ would “snub” this institution, it would be for the same exact reasons that germinate these senseless and thoughtless comments today. To ever think that we lived in an “understanding and thoughtful” community is but a farce after this. Ever wonder why the majority of people dare not address each other in the eye on college walk, it is for feelings such as this that exist in people’s hearts. Ever wonder why people feel so alone, segmented and without friends, it is because of sentiments like this that exist in people’s hearts. I can only hang my head low as I graduate, because I go to school with cowardly bigots who engender these senseless sentiments.
@CC12 This.
@Anonymous Hi, way to use big words, don’t you feel smart.
@Anonymous well fuck, there’s the V-word, shit just got real
@True As a long time Bwog reader, and also CC’12 ashamed graduate, I just thought it is important to use these sentiments to give a heads up to younger classes. I am not afraid to say my views have changed on many issues and I have matured much throughout my time here. There is a world of difference of how I react and respond to Bwog comments and the overall Columbia Community between my sophomore year and now. I just think it’s important to remember that everyone who comments on here is going through a different point in their life, have different levels of maturity and occupy different places in the University. Perhaps this is why these comments never die, the BC-CC debate rages on year after year, and students continually enter CU bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and wind up leaving despising this institution and wondering how we got through it. Perhaps not everyone feels this way, and I bet even more people aren’t willing to admit it. Some advice to commenters from younger classes, curb your desires to anonymously splurge your emotions on Bwog and take note of what others, who have already been there and done that, are doing around you.
@False It is saying please excuse the ignorance and bigotry of our fellow students, because they are still growing up. Hatred and Ignorance are Hatred and Ignorance. Call a spade a spade. Do not think to excuse for one second hate speech towards members of the COLUMBIA COMMUNITY with the notion of individuals engendering sophomoric tendencies in their overall rationale.
@Anonymous Ever since Anna was fired we’ve been falling apart at the seems. Get your shit together, Columbia!
@^ I smell a barnard commenter it’s seams.
@i smell a piece of shit OMG IT’S YOU
@Anonymous get a sense of humor, bitch
@Anonymous omgihateyousomuch
@I smell a piece of shit Respect your elders, freshman.
@BC'15 really, you smug asshole? ITS SEAMS. Not “it’s.”
@Anonymous Umm sorry to interrupt your name calling, but he/she/? was trying to say “it is seams” as in “the word should be seams” so….it should be “it’s” not “its”
From one grammar nazi to someone trying to be one, go back to the books!
@BC12 Though some of you are trying to ruin the experience of a day I have been looking forward to my entire life, I would like to let you know that my spirit and pride as a Barnard woman has grown exponentially because of this. I still have an immense respect and love for Columbia as an institution and for those peers who see beyond what “divides” us. I just wish this would stop.
@In that case... If you are so proud to be a Barnard woman, wouldn’t it be so wonderful to have a degree that specifically says “Barnard College”.
@CC12 shut the fuck up.
@Aurora OHMYGOD IT DOES.
@It would be an honor: Would having a Barnard diploma make me less of a person, would it mean I’m worthless and not worthy of ever getting a job? Would it mean I’m inferior? No right?
@BC'12 Hey, Columbia, do you guys remember this post: http://bwog.com/2011/02/27/something-we-dont-usually-do/ ?
Apparently the title of it was far more accurate than I had ever thought..being compassionate and empathetic is clearly something that you “don’t usually do”. Columbia students, you can take your 30 point margin on me on the SATS, you can take back your Facebook network, you can take your mediocre salad bar, your nonsensically laid out Lerner, your beautiful tin roofs (I will miss those) and, hell, even your men. Fuck it, take your sperate degree. I would gladly forsake all of those “benefits” to distance Barnard from all this ugliness. Fuck your steps and stacks–I get emails from Well Women that contain Youtube videos of kittens; I get professors who invite me over for dinner and drinks; I get 70 year old alums who still brag about how they won discus in the Greek Games; I get the President of the College knowing my name, serving me pancakes, and making small talk with me in an elevator bank; I get sincerity and smarts; I get to attend an institution that teaches me how to be both a good student as well as a good person and a fucking force of a woman. I get to go to school with people who care–care not about protecting their elitism but about creating an environment that is emotionally fulfilling as well as intellectually stimulating. You want to protect the “integrity of your degree” from ME? I want to protect the beauty of my community from YOU.
And Bwog, don’t you dare act like you’re not complicit in this. This forum has paraded out some of the most spiteful, snarky, and mean-hearted pieces of writing that I have ever seen (and I read Gawker, ladies and gentlemen) and has had the audacity of calling it “journalism”. I understand that we are all in our twenties and are ~*~2 kewl 4 skewl~*~ but time and time again, this website has perpetuated some dark stereotypes and has actively worked to break down any feeble attempts of community building that actually managed to survive the first level of apathy hell that is the Columbia populace. The fact that you allow anonymous commenting and that you haven’t shut down the comments system at any point of this leads me to believe that you are gaining some sick pleasure out of the mudslinging. (OR the constant hyperlinking back to you.)
to end: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RIM2MAMg-DQ/TQ3fHuljk0I/AAAAAAAABBg/btTwYjve4CA/s1600/8vydtc.gif
@Anonymous Fortunately for this soon-to-be proud Barnard alumna, her degree actually *will* specifically say Barnard College on it, just as Barnard degrees always have.
So yay, now that you know that you’ll be able to stop whining and focus on the fact that thanks to Barnard, CC undergrads are able to major in Architecture, Urban Studies, Education, Theater and Dance, and take courses with/have their senior theses advised by faculty like Helene Foley, Paige West, Randall Balmer, Dennis Dalton, Monica Miller, et al.! I look forward to the positive comments you will be sure to make about Barnard in the future, now that your misconceptions have been cleared up.
@can we just get back to not liking pushy crack lady?
@Anonymous “my mom’s getting out of prison today. i’m so proud of her!”
@Robert Kalonian What’s with the hate, CC? Midterms got you all wound up? Go Barnard!
@Anonymous As someone who chose not to apply to Columbia ED this year for financial reasons (and was actually pretty upset about it until this whole shitstorm), I feel like I dodged a bullet. I know the elitist, misogynistic assholes are probably a small minority of the student body, but thanks to NYT and Jezebel, most people kinda hate you guys about now.
@Robert Kalonian Santorum is an asshole.
@Dick Shortz What if this isnt actually Robert Kalonian. how do I know youre not an imposter… perhaps, in reality you’re OchoCinco or Rob Reiner
@CC '14 I’m beginning to feel embarrassed to be a Columbia woman right now.
@Anonymous Me too…because 9 times out of 10 people assume you actually went to Barnard. If only there was a way to prove otherwise…you know…with our degrees
@Anonymous #winnning i say createa fb group: Columbia Women for Accurate Degree Labels!
@Good point! We can restrict it to the Columbia network…oh..wait…nevermind
@KC BC I don’t understand what is inaccurate about our current degree labels. I graduate with “Barnard College of Columbia University” … you with “Columbia College of Columbia University” or “School of General Studies of Columbia University ” or “The Fu Foundation School of Engineering & Applied Science”. The Barnard gates say “Barnard College of Columbia University”. We each applied to one of the four different undergraduate colleges. I see no inaccuracy in our diplomas.
Sorry I stole your boyfriend. And your girlfriend. Get over it.
@CC Sad truth, barnard is not one of the undergraduate colleges.
New York Times: “Mr. Obama went first to Occidental College in Los Angeles, and then transferred after two years to Columbia College, where he graduated in 1983. The university also has two other undergraduate colleges — the school of general studies, which primarily serves older students, and the school of applied sciences and engineering”
2+1 does not =4
Barnard is not an undergraduate college of Columbia. It is an entirely separate college (which does not have a graduate program), with its own endowment, admissions, etc.
@Anonymous Actually, another NYT article does list Barnard as an undergraduate college. Someone posted the link in an earlier bwog post. I’m not saying you’re wrong – just saying that the NYT is an inaccurate source of proof.
@BC '12 Here’s a truth:
Google Columbia University.
Click schools.
Right there nestled among Columbia College, Engineering, General Studies, Social Work, Public Health, Dental Medicine, and many more is Barnard College.
Yup. It’s Barnard College of Columbia University. It’s one of the undergraduate schools. Try using Columbia University itself as a source rather than an article about the school.
@CC'13 Try using your own website:
https://druprod.barnard.edu/about/columbia-partnership
@BC '12 Just because Barnard is it’s own institution does not mean it’s not officially affiliated with the University. There’s a reason why on the website it says Barnard College. Columbia University in the header. There’s a reason why “Barnard students receive the diploma of the University signed by the presidents of both institutions, and the College is represented in the University Senate.” I’m not trying to say the relationship isn’t complicated…I’m only saying that it is an undergraduate school affiliated with Columbia University. It may have a different relationship than CC or SEAS but that does not make it lesser.
@Anonymous https://druprod.barnard.edu/about/columbia-partnership
@CC Woman TRANSFER TO BARNARD
@Anonymous Bwog, stop milking this. I’m a vegan.
@Anonymous Santorum should speak at Columbia. Whether or not he gets the nomination, Columbia would be an appropriate venue to share his thoughts on higher education, women’s rights, and science (among other enlightened views). There won’t be a dry eye in the audience after his speech. I, for one, can’t think about that man without wanting to cry.
Plus it would really show Barnard which school is better.
@Anonymous I find it funny that instead of focusing on the fact that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES is speaking at BARNARD, the entire nation’s talking about the reaction of COLUMBIA students. Even when we’re losing, we’re still #winning.
@CC i find it sad =(
@Anonymous Yes, congratulations on making your school-wide tantrum a national spectacle.
@SA * a-few-immature-students-wide tantrum
Just saying
@Anonymous Which one?
@Anonymous Our school-wide tantrum? CC’s? As in, Columbia College screaming bloody murder, spamming blog pages with hundreds of indignant rants, sitting for hours on the Low Steps to confront comment authors, castigating the entire body of CC as pigheaded misogynists with a sense of entitlement, all over a handful of comments written specifically to draw out Barnard’s insecurities?
I’m sorry, which school started a fucking petition over comments on a blog?
Yes, they were misogynistic, hateful comments. Yes, misogyny should be condemned. But this forum allows statements to be completely divorced from overarching themes. You’re not quoting a person when you copy and paste a comment, and you’re certainly not providing evidence for an entire institution’s views. If anonymous blog comments are reason enough to demand from Prezbo a public denunciation of CC’s supposedly rampant misogyny, then I should demand that Prezbo condemn the rampant anti-semitism coming from C-SJP or islamophobia from LionPac. I’ll cite as support twenty comments I wrote myself within five minutes. Israeli Apartheid Week will be noted as the event that instigated it. Everyone will point to long-standing tensions between the two groups as Columbia. Voila, a real issue tranformed through cyberspace into an online shitstorm/circlejerk.
They were directed at your school and its students because the author predicted that your reactions would be entertaining.
@BC 2011 What exactly are you winning? The prize for best douchebags?
@A Stupid Barnard Woman Calling someone an easy lay, a cum dumpster, and a feminazi is misogynistic. Also, I thought you said you were attacking us based on our intelligence. Most people would agree that Barnard would slaughter most Columbia girls in a beauty and personality contest.
Please continue to be bitter and angry. Even if we become completely separate institutions, Columbia men will continue to choose us over you. ;)
@OHGODWHOFUCKINGCARES Sursly.
Now how about that Rise of Civ midterm? And here I thought this class was supposed to be the easy Global Core!
– CC ’12
@Anonymous then go study and stop reading the Bwog.
@Lulz HI MOM.
> the Bwog
@Anonymous I hope you’re enjoying the Rise of Civ class. While you’re enjoying it (and, it seems, noting how much more difficult it is than you expected), please note that it is a Barnard course taught by a Barnard professor. Which is available to you to take for your Columbia Global Core requirement because of the affiliation between the two schools, which benefits us all.
Win-win — and good luck on the midterm!
@Anonymous a reply to Columbia Women for Accurate Degree Labels………yyyeees! please start the campaign!!!!!!
@Columbia Women for Accurate Degree Labels Peace offering: For every Barnard girl who corrects her Facebook network to accurately reflect the institution to which she was admitted, I will donate one dollar to Planned Parenthood.
@A CC Lady To be fair, a few years ago there was not a Barnard network on facebook, at least not an active one.
Also, please for the love of God stop calling Barnard girls stupid. There are many, many brilliant girls across the street.
HOWEVER, I agree that accurate degree labels need to happen. To go through an interview saying that you went to Columbia is flat out lying. That’s it. Not saying that one school’s better than the other, the are just different schools with different standards for admission and different requirements for graduation.
@Aurora Here’s what I don’t understand, how are all these CC students looking at Barnard students’ resumes and/or present in their job interviews? How do you possibly know Barnard women are misrepresenting themselves for a fact? I very proudly put Barnard on my resume, and every single Barnard student who’s resume I’ve seen does too. (And I’ve seen them because I proofread them for friends).
@seriously? you proofread resumes? i’m pretty sure you mean “whose resumes”.
@Anonymous Hi, sometimes people write comments quickly and fail to proofread. It is not the end of the world, I assure you. So please stop this condescending bullshit. Thanks!
@@Aurora “every single Barnard student who’s resume I’ve seen does too. (And I’ve seen them because I proofread them for friend”
selection bias much? oh wait– you never took stats, with or without calc.
open your eyes.
@Anonymous There is no such thing as a Barnard network on Facebook everyone had to register under Columbia to even join Facebook with their Barnard email. And to call girls Bi and Large… you really should be ashamed.
@Okay This is what I remember, honest to god; when I tried to register for the Barnard network three years ago, none existed. My Facebook is registered under my Barnard email. I joined the Columbia network and to this day, my profile only reads “Barnard College” and nothing else, but if you look me up, the search box shows my name attached to the Columbia network because
1) There is no Barnard network. I don’t know how networks are formed, but if Facebook recognizes an official Barnard network, then hells yeah, I will join it.
2) Let’s be real, half of the people I meet in life go to Columbia, so friending them on FB isn’t a total pain in the ass. And vice versa. Even if they were to create a Barnard network, I think that I would keep both for expedience’ sake. And no, I still would not put “Columbia” on my resumes or emails or Linkedin or fucking sweatshirts or whatever the hell sends you people into a tizzy (because apparently nobody has ever brought paraphernalia from a college they didn’t attend).
@anon you may not, but I do know plenty of bc girls who put columbia on their resume. i’m not saying either schools is better, but if there are different requirements, there should be different recognitions. that is all.
@BC '11 Where are you getting that BC women are misrepresenting themselves? I always have Barnard listed on my resume and have never said I went to Columbia in an interview. And while working at Barard career services, I have never once proofread a resume that only said “Columbia,” or sat through a mock interview in which a woman said she was a Columbia student.
Barnard is an extremely prestigious school in its own right. We don’t have to do that.
(And as per Facebook, there is no Barnard network, so we’re not given that option.)
@BC '13 Seriously? I put Barnard College on my Facebook, but I joined the Columbia network because there isn’t a separate Barnard network (or at least there wasn’t when I started here). Most of my classes happen to be at Columbia (IMHO, Barnard classes are more challenging anyway). My resume says “Barnard College of Columbia University” just like any GS or SEAS student would put their college and university. I have never tried to misrepresent myself as a student of CC, ever. However, it is absurd to pretend that Barnard students don’t get a degree from Columbia, as we should because we take Columbia classes. I don’t see anyone arguing that SEAS students aren’t “real” Columbia students because their requirements are different. It’s sexism, plain and simple.
@Anonymous ╔══════════════ღ☃ღ══════════════╗
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ you are a strong independent columbian ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ who don’t need no obama ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
╚══════════════ღ☃ღ══════════════╝
GO ROMNEY!
@Columbia Women for Accurate Degree Labels I personally love how all Barnard women are labeling the verbal attacks against their institution as misogynist. First of all, by and large it is in fact the Columbia *women* who are sick and tired of their lesser counterparts across the street reaping the benefits of the Columbia name that we worked so hard to earn. Furthermore, we are not attacking them on the grounds that they are women. We are attacking them on the grounds that they are stupid–a key difference that someone whose education afforded them such “big-word” definitions would be able to understand. While we are on the topic of semantics: by and large Barnard women are bi and large.
@A CC lady Readers please ignore the ridiculous generalizations about Barnard girls and consider the real necessity for accurate degree labels.
@Annie '11 CC Lady, you are a —Class-C— lady! =)
@Anonymous bi and large!?!?! class C!!?!?!??! AHAHAHAHAHAHA
lets be real. you both are in SEAS.
@But still... why do you care? Take your degree and live your life, stop worrying about all the thousands of other people, good and bad, who have a degree that says Columbia University on it. It only affects you if you think it affects you.
@Anonymous The degrees that are conferred at Commencement are, and always have been, accurately labelled. This is a non-issue.
@BC 2011 I don’t know where this degree argument is coming from. My barnard 2011 diploma does not look the same as my boyfriend’s columbia 2011 diploma. ours indeed does say barnard. it has the signature of the barnard president at the bottom. what other distinction are you looking for?
@Anonymous Calling someone a cum dumpster, an easy lay, and a femenazi is misogynistic. Also, we do not earn the same degree. You receive one from Columbia College. I receive one from Barnard College.
Please do not comment on the way that Barnard women look. Our looks say nothing about our intelligence. In fact, most people would agree that the women who attend Barnard College are fairly attractive.
@Thank you Calling someone a cum dumpster, an easy lay, and a femenazi is misogynistic. Also, we do not earn the same degree. You receive one from Columbia College. I receive one from Barnard College. We are both under the CU umbrella. Even if the schools did separate, how will this stop Barnard students from masquerading as Columbia College students? A person who is insecure enough to lie about where they go to school would continue to do so. There does not need to be an affiliation in order for students to lie about what school they attend.
Please do not comment on the way that Barnard women look. Our looks say nothing about our intelligence. In fact, most people would agree that the women who attend Barnard College are fairly attractive.
@Anonymous the columbia name you work so hard for is being devalued by anonymous comments on school websites that show the true colors of individuals in your community. this is a very simple matter of statistics.
even if a student from barnard fails to impress someone while using a “columbia label,” that someone is very unlikely to generalize their impression to the entire school. but when there are hundreds of comments from students who identify explicitly as columbia college behaving like they did and saying what they said it is easier and more appropriate to draw conclusions about the entire population. the first sample is hypothetical and unlikely to be large. the second sample, thanks to tracking and the little college icon, is verified and in the dozens.
there are much better ways to make the tinfoil hat to protect yourself from the devaluation of your degree by others. the most obvious one is to be impressive yourself.
@Anonymous This.
@Anonymous Columbia has continually cheapened its brand value through its pursuit of easy money to fill the coffers of the administration and university. At the very least, Barnard College has been affiliated with the university for over 100 years.
Look at the thousands of students, increasingly from abroad, who are enrolled in graduate programs, programs that offer little to no serious prospects and cost tens of thousands of dollars.
Look at the 3-2 engineering program and the pool of transfer students, many of whom are quite talented but nonetheless given preferential treatment over those who cannot pay.
Look at the GS program and see the increased enrollment – sine financial aid – freeing the administration from the annoyances of housing while opening up an untapped reservoir of candidates.
Be ashamed at the inexorable increase in tuition year in and year out, pushing more and more students to abandon the lofty goals of civic service and intellectual enrichment for the corporeal need to repay vast accumulated debts. These problems transcend this small block of Manhattan, but the University, as an institution for higher learning, should also nurture those students who want to do good rather than simply dip into their pockets so that the University can do well.
Decades from now, when we care to check up on our alma mater, we’ll see that its fall from grace was not caused by an unforeseen circumstance, but by the blithe ignorance of the ideals it purports to uphold.
@Anonymous GS IS a part of undergrad Columbia. One with higher GPAs than CC/SEAS despite the institutional discrimination you mentioned. There are spots for women that Barnard students failed to get; there are virtually no spots in the Ivy League for the very poor, veterans, or those with unique time-related circumstances.
Kneejerk reaction aside…as a GSer I agree with you wholeheartedly. If Columbia programs don’t meet Columbia standards, they swindle everyone involved. I just hope the response is aggressive and immediate action to bring Columbia programs up to par through better integration. Administrators, not swindled students, are to blame.
@Really? Oh, don’t you dare start.
@Anonymous Oh fuck that GS comment about GPAs. You get higher GPAs because you’re older and you take two classes a semester. College students just leaving home, just getting used to the stress of higher education, and without the support of additional years to grow up and get their shit together clearly will have a lower overall GPA. A thirty-five year old brownnoser in the front of the classroom interrupting a lecture every ten minutes to ask a question or commiserate with the professor probably would get a higher grade.
@Anonymous Let’s not make the argument about grades. I don’t agree with his reasoning or your insults, but it is true that you can’t directly compare CC and GS grades.
Also, midterms are a valid excuse for using double-negatives.
@Anonymous My bad. A better point would be that GS represents a nontrivial number of students; 2,000 to CC’s 4,100.
@gs/jts You obviously havent taken any time to talk to a single person in gs, or take into consideration the 200 or so students who take at least 6 classes a semester because they’re earning two degrees. Go make some friends outside of your little prestigious circle. Take some time to ask your peers why they chose barnard, gs, cc, or seas.
@I'm sorry But I’d be much less surprised if I check up on my alma mater in a few decades to see that it swallowed Upper Manhattan whole.
@Anonymous I’d take your tired-out “bi and large” bit as a compliment, but prodigious size is an honor I simply cannot claim. I’m glad you’ve successfully identified my sexual orientation, though. It makes my little LGBTQA heart go aflutter with pride!
@Anonymous Okay, let’s say all Barnard women are stupid, just for argument’s sake. So the education system in this country isn’t exclusive and elitist enough for you? Only the small percentage of people actually admitted to an Ivy League institution fundamentally *deserve* that education? Really? This reeks of the justifications made by the top 1% to hoard their wealth and lord it over others – poor people don’t deserve benefits; people who weren’t cherry-picked don’t deserve to be educated. (“my hard-earned money”…”my hard-earned degree”…) Think of it as charity if it makes you feel better – Columbia is magnanimously sharing its resources with those Barnard students so sadly disadvantaged by their stupidity.
And there’s a pretty simple way to solve the problem of us having the same degree – have better credentials apart from it. It shouldn’t be hard, since you’re so much smarter and everything.
@Anonymous This is the best comment I’ve read on Bwog this week.
@BC '12 Seconded.
@CC '14 I really don’t see the problem, then. We’re not exactly scratching our asses over here. If matching up CC students’ degree-independent skills with Barnard’s would settle it, then I’m down. Jesus, I know some of us are coasting on the whole “I-got-admitted-to-an-Ivy-League-school” thing, but most of us are well aware (some of us pathologically paranoid) that our degree is just ink on paper.
@Gladys Beatríz Vélez Caicedo OHHHHH, now I get it!!!! Thanks for clearing that up! It’s not that we’re women, it’s that we’re STUPID. Makes sense.
I still have my Columbia College, California Institute of Technology and Massachusetts Institute of Technology acceptance letters. And I am proud to call myself a Barnard Woman majoring in Astrophysics.
@A CC lady Can you actually explain why you chose Barnard over those places? If it was about location, Columbia is in the same place. If it was about financial aid, Columbia is grant-based as opposed to Barnard’s loans. If it was about the department, surely MIT and CalTech have better physics departments and Columbia’s is better than Barnard’s. Was it honestly all about culture?
I am genuinely curious.
@Anonymous I’m not the OP, but I am guessing she might say one of the following: the culture, an all women’s college, a liberal arts education, or the faculty (if she had several specific professors in mind while applying). In addition, she may have eliminated Columbia from her ideal colleges for many reasons, yet she may have still liked the idea of going to college in New York.
Honestly, the culture / community seems to be a popular choice from what I’ve heard from Barnard students. Also, the liberal arts education reason seems to be quite popular as well.
@BC '12 Choosing a women’s college is a political statement and offers a unique opportunity to immerse yourself in a female-oriented, empowering environment. Honestly, I love seeing lovely ladies everywhere. I love sunbathing on the lawn without worrying about football-throwing assholes.
Better advising system that integrates you within your major. I feel really attached to my department even though it is one of the larger ones on campus.
One of the best career services in the nation (according to multiple sources).
More freedom within core requirements to take classes that interest you.
Smaller community allowing for deeper personal attachments and more student-teacher interaction.
Health center that is catered to women’s health. This seems insubstantial until you realize half the reason you ever see a doctor is for reproductive health, and these ladies are awesome with your vag.
I ALWAYS feel that Barnard cares about us. From little signs everywhere reminding us to be bold/beautiful/whatever to the well-woman center which offers a massage chair, tea, and peer advisers, there’s always something nice going on.
Up until this year – paying per credit hour.
And the food is better.
Overall, I was tired of dealing with patriarchal bullshit so when I was 17 I googled women’s colleges and realized Barnard was absolutely ideal. Never looked back. I didn’t want to go to Columbia and I realized the only reason I would bother applying to CU over Barnard is for the name and status. That would have been really stupid. So I only applied to Barnard. And I fucking love it here.
@anon Talk about insecure. The person is obviously confident enough about her own capabilities and priorities in life to know that she will secure an awesome life regardless of what college she goes to, which is fairly evident from her accomplishments. And yet, you just find it mind-boggling that a person can turn down prestige for happiness and still find self-worth without instantly combusting. Have you really never met a successful, happy person that didn’t go to an Ivy League? Have you never met anyone who regretted going to an Ivy League because they were terribly unhappy there? Get out of your little world!
@Anonymous Female sex organs. End of discussion.
@A football throwing asshole As a football throwing asshole, I love it when you sunbathe on barnard’s lawn leaving more room for me and my friends to throw a football on Columbia’s lawn.
This relationship works well for me.
@anon Lol wut lawn
@BC 15' Well, Barnard is smaller, has a more helpful administration, nicer housing, and a strong culture of feminism and female leadership.
@Anonymous how can you not see that without Barnard proving women were equally capable you wouldn’t even have had the chance to attend any other CU undergraduate college. It wasn’t until 1983 that women could be in Columbia College – don’t kid yourself.
@Anonymous It was Barnard’s fault it took so long. They bitched and moaned the entire time because they didn’t want to merge. Otherwise, Columbia would have done it MUCH sooner.
@Anonymous Barnard had a role in proving women were capable, but so did the mothers and grandmothers of current CC students. Please don’t claim the credit for Columbia’s integration. You played one small role in an enormous movement.
@BC '12 Just because you’re a women doesn’t mean you can’t be a misogynist. If anything, it makes your misogyny less excusable.
But please, do continue to prove CC’s negative reputation as being filled with elitist assholes. Your admissions process makes you better? Don’t make me laugh. Admissions nation-wide is a crap-shoot at this point, and I think we all know that. I did not apply to CC because I didn’t want to go there, not because I wouldn’t get in. I got into top-notch schools,and I chose Barnard College from among them. Barnard College has a select pool of applicants: generally only women from private schools who are dedicated to education apply, whereas everyone and their third cousin apply to Columbia College, making your acceptance rate look insane. How about instead of jacking yourself off to your acceptance letter, you act graciously, and accept that just because someone had a less rigorous admissions process doesn’t mean they’re less intelligent than yourself.
@Eva Suarez please do not presume to speak for columbia women, i want no part of what you have to say.
@Matt Wood, CC 94 Way to prove that you’re not a misogynist, just a horrible person on a wide range of other vectors.
@Anonymous you know what word is a part of the phrase “barnard jokes”? JOKES. bitches need to relax.
@BC '12 Do you know what word is a part of the phrase “sexist jokes”? Sexist.
You might wanna get your head out of your ass so you can ace those midterms. Good luck to ya.
@BC 13 The sexist jokes are especially not funny in light of the recent Rush Limbaugh-Sandra Fluke incident. I think it’s sad that President Obama shows his support for women during the contraception debate by deciding to speak at Barnard commencement, and then members of the Columbia community feel the need to say horrible, sexist things about Barnard students.
@Anonymous Why this characterization of Barnard jokes as sexist? They’re aimed at students of Barnard, which is, obstinately, an all-women’s school. It’s like saying Brown jokes are anti-Rhode-Island.
@BC '12 I think the use of terms like “cum bucket” and “jizz hole,” or if you want to go more mild and run-of-the-mill, “MRS degree.”
@BC '12 And you know what, fuck it. There’s no reason for me not to put a name on my comments, because what I’m saying is perfectly reasonable, and anyone who wants to call me a cum bucket should look me up and say it to my face.
-Eva Asplund, AKA BC ’12
@um You’re awesome.
@EUNICE YOONI KIM YES!
Eunice Yooni Kim. Barnard 2013.
@Matt Wood, CC '94 As an old (old as in almost 40 now, kids; it’s amazing how time passes) an old CC grad, I came here to see some of the bullshit, sexist comments for myself, and didn’t have to look far. Kudos to the blog authors for the thoughtful main post, and to people like you willing to stand up to anonymous bullies and assholes. I did this one time myself — signed my name to a comment in a stream of ridiculously condescending anonymous slurs — and it was amazing to hear the bullies shut up and the crickets chirping in their place.
@Anonymous Rock on, sister!
@Anonymous wasnt that like literally all from one comment… I dont think it’s fair to generalize
@Anonymous Actually, it was from multiple comments. The originals have been deleted by Bwog.
@Anonymous multiple=more than one. There was a handful, possibly written by the same person. But sure, kick me in the balls a few more times. Nothing says “raging misogynists” like Columbia College.
@Anonymous sigh.
@really man... RIGHT after they post this? come on.
@BARNYARDENTHUSIAST hey guys i really want people to stop hating on barnard. i just looked it up online, and their admission rates for males is like so low. one of the lowest in the country. if that doesn’t say exclusive institution i don’t know what does
@Anonymous OH MY GOD. is this ever going to end?
@.. I went to the Diana center, didn’t see any hot chicks so I left.
@God, these comments are so much fun! I demand an encore part 4!
@Eunice Yooni Kim Dear anonymous commenters on Bwog,
I would like to get to know you all in person, if you would do me the honor. I’ll be waiting on the first floor of the Diana from 5-8PM tonight (Wednesday), so we can have this discussion face to face. There is something terribly stifling about getting frustrated at a computer screen, and I’d love to get over this discontinuity. No, my girl gang won’t be waiting with with metal bats or burning bras. Bring two bucks for coffee so we can settle this like some fucking adults.
Best,
Eunice Yooni Kim
Barnard 2013
@Anonymous http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/mj_popcorn.gif
@Ugh there’s a reactiongifs.com now? I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
@Anonymous http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35TbGjt-weA
@Anonymous http://pineappleope.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/jackson_popcorn.gif
@ASL r u hot?
@Anonymous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29
Please read this article until you get the gist of it. This is what is going on. Barnard is being trolled. Trolls like to make provocative statements to offend you and garner attention. The best trolls will fine-tune their message to elicit specific rebuttals, giving you the illusion that you’re destroying an opponent in a debate that’s actually a one-sided masturbatory tirade.
In this case, the result is a whole bunch of Barnard students up in arms, authentically outraged and hurt, calling for redress to this “divisiveness” that plagues the CU community. In reality, there’s no transaction going on. Barnard students are taking anonymous comments personally and their CC trolls are cackling from behind a computer screen, reading op-ed after op-ed confirming the insecurity of Barnard students that they hoped to exacerbate. You have no idea how much damage your reaction is doing to your reputation as a school. Don’t feed the trolls. Ignore them. You’ve been warned.
@Eunice Yooni Kim Well, I’m here.
@Anonymous I’m curious to know if anyone showed up, and if so, what happened.
@Ovid “[Barnard], you bitch! Must I tolerate you? You will / always be female / and [Barnard] to me. Perhaps you forget your original / sex / Do you ever recall what you did to deserve your / reward? Do you think / of the price which you paid to achieve this specious / [Columbia] body? / Look at the girl you were born and the shame that she / suffered. Then go, / return to your distaff and basket of wool. Go back to / your spinning, / and leave [Obama] to men!
Metamorphoses, I.
@Anonymous Too bad Obama didn’t want you.
@Anonymous ITT: over the head of all barnard girls because they don’t take the core
@Anonymous OMYGOD THIS IS SO STUPID. I AM A BARNARD SENIOR WHO DID NOT APPLY TO COLUMBIA. IF I WERE A HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR NOW, I WOULD NOT CHOOSE TO COME HERE – BARNARD OR COLUMBIA! FUCK ALL OF YOU MORONS.